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The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

waxy.org

21–30 of 264 posts

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#21
post #9

Even the supposedly indie anti-social social media outright violated their own manifesto. Is it any surprise that we're skeptical of the big promises of a bright future that corporations make all the time? I'm curious to know if anyone has evidence of a post similar to this but for a company with a (so far) happy ending.

I'm interested about the public benefit corporation part here. Did the PBC status wind up changing anything at all here? How does a PBC sell itself or get acquired? How is a PBC supposed to terminate or wind down? If they violate their charter as Ello may have, who exactly enforces it or file a lawsuit, and what is their compensation?

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#22
Just a reminder:

If you are not paying for the product, you are the product.

The internet culture birthed from the early days of the internet "Everything is free", seems to have captured a whole generation who simply have no concept of cost and value.

Vid.me is another start-up that comes to mind: Youtube sucks, has too many ads, and sells your data. We won't have ads, won't sell your data, and will host all your content.

It made it four years before investor cash dried up and they said goodbye.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#23

I remember when tech twitter (or at least Node.js twitter) tried to migrate to Ello for like a week. A pretty good portion of my social network moved, myself included. But it fizzled out really quickly and we all ended up back on Twitter. Every once in a while I'd still get a notification from Ello that someone had followed me. It was always a porn bot, but the email notification was still nostalgic. A part of me is…

I remember when something-something twitter tried to migrate to Threads for like a week.

And to Mastodon before that.

Remember when tech Reddit tried to migrate to Lemmy?

A hardcore handful of people migrate await from the Death Star and stay migrated (maybe a couple hundred medium accounts, and 1 or 2 bigger ones), but everybody else trickles back onto the Death Star eventually.

The only thing that works to get people permanently migrated away is complete enshitification of the existing platform (i.e. Digg effect). Partial enshitification isn't enough.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#26

I thought this was a fantastic post. I think it really dovetailed with what I've been thinking a lot about recently regarding my disillusionment with tech (or, rather, with big tech companies). I think everyone should understand (and, honestly, repeat daily) that in our modern capitalist system where never-ending growth is an expected requirement of any company that has ever taken outside funding, it is simply an imp…

Yes, this is a tech thing in particular. You don't see VC being raised for a plumbing company, they'll get an SBA loan or bootstrap. They don't need to grow 10x every year, if the owners can pay their bills and send their kids to college they're happy.

And plumbing is such a constitutionally important thing: having hot, running water and not having feces in your house is so much important than seeing what that guy from high school is up to.

I think the issue lays with how high-variance tech is due to the scale: either it is marginally profitable at a massive scale and is worth billions of dollars, or you have something that is unprofitable at any scale and is worthless. It's like there's all of the sudden (in the last 15 years) become an appetite for throwing fortunes onto a roulette table (which may be giving better odds than a lot of VCs).

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#27
Taking investor money means users will required to pay, one way or another.

Without an explicitly capped profit, I can't see how this doesn't eventually lead to exploitation of the users.

I would like to see a donation/optional subscription model with tiered features as is seen in Patreon/Kickstarter etc. with the distinction that the tiers are community wide instead of being bound to the individuals donating.

Display an income bar. If it drops to zero the servers turn off. If it drops below 1 nobody can post. If it is above 1 you have Direct messaging, above 2 you have more features, etc. Keep the communication clear as to what is being provided and how it is being paid for.

Most people won't pay, but if nobody pays there is no service. Its survival would depend upon providing a service that satisfies enough people to sustain the support. This certainly wouldn't be as lucrative as a exploit the users model, but the idea is not to make a fortune, but to simply run a sustainable enterprise.

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#28

Anyone wanna place a bet on how likely that an order from here would be delivered? https://ello.threadless.com/designs/white-ello-shirt/mens/t-...

Considering that the order would be fulfilled by Threadless (an Actually Good™ company) and not by Ello, why do you think you wouldn't get the tee?

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#29
I'm amazed by the number of people who trust websites like this with their memories/diaries etc. I mean, I understand why, there's an expectation when you start with these sites they'll be around forever - most people don't have the time, the knowledge or the desire to "do it themselves" - When livejournal was all the rage I decided to do it myself with Postnuke, then (and still!) Drupal. Going on 24 years now. That said, LiveJournal is still going, but owned by a Russian company I think, and it could turn off tomorrow.

I guess the flipside is, if I die tomorrow and then there's a PHP error on my website, no one's ever going to know how to fix it. So my memories and diary entries die as well. My "fix" for that is to export the ~2400 diary entires every few months into one massive PDF file.

Edit: I understand why this is being downvoted, I just want to clarify that I didn't mean the opening sentence to read as if people who trust 3rd party websites to their hosting were silly/dumb, though I realise now that's how it scans. What I should have said was "It's very unfortunate and a sad state of the current Internet that people trust websites like this..."

Re: The quiet death of Ello's big dreams

#30

> After leaving Ello in 2016, Budnitz returned to his Kidrobot roots with the launch of Superplastic in 2017, a vinyl figure company that expanded into NFTs and the metaverse in 2022, raising a total of $68M in seven rounds of funding, led by Amazon. Superplastic appears to have abandoned its NFT projects last year as the market cratered, and Budnitz stepped down from his CEO role in September, replaced by the former…

This is the game. Raise money, steal it, let the company go to the dogs.

I am often jealous of the people who make huge sums of money grifting investors, but the thing is I care too much about what I do and I’d be bad at pretending I don’t.

The flip side is I instead love what I do and I’m very proud of my work, which I don’t think someone could really say if they’re shilling crap like plastic toys and NFTs. Or maybe they could say that, but I never could. Grifting is just not for me.

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