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Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

theguardian.com

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Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#21

Post by plagiarist »

jseliger wrote: post #2

It's very expensive being sick for any extended period of time; I had my first partial glossectomy surgery (removal of a piece of my tongue) in October 2022 ( https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce... ), and there are at least three major components to being sick for a long time: health itself; financial viability; and managing the healthcare team. I've been lucky with the generosity of friends…

I'd like to see insurers be sued for malpractice since they feel entitled to make medical decisions for people.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#23

Post by nonameiguess »

The definition is amusing. "Have the ability to pay but don’t."

They don't exactly make it easy. I'm usually good about this but am probably on this list right now. My cat got out of the house and bit me on the hand last year around this time and it got infected and swelled up. Went to one of those boutique ERs with no wait, which I specifically did because I have plenty of money and can pay. They still couldn't bill me everything on the spot.

Four months later, when I got the rest of the bill, which is only $117, I tried to pay online and their website said my account number was invalid. It's the number on the bill they sent me. So I tried to call to pay and the payment center apparently is staffed by one person and if you call when they're at lunch, you're out of luck. It can be paid by mail, but they don't provide postage and I last sent mail on purpose on any regular basis over a decade ago and don't have any stamps.

So oh well, suck it. I'm not going through that much more effort to pay you $117. If you're seriously willing to sell that for $2 to a debt collector, have fun. Even if I ultimately pay, the labor and paperwork on behalf of all involved parties is probably enough that every single participant loses money.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#24

Post by beaeglebeached »

plagiarist wrote: post #21
jseliger wrote: post #2

It's very expensive being sick for any extended period of time; I had my first partial glossectomy surgery (removal of a piece of my tongue) in October 2022 ( https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce... ), and there are at least three major components to being sick for a long time: health itself; financial viability; and managing the healthcare team. I've been lucky with the generosity of friends…

I'd like to see insurers be sued for malpractice since they feel entitled to make medical decisions for people.

That will raise the price of insurance even more. Now you have to cover the cost of risk of suing your own insurance pool.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#25

Post by plagiarist »

beaeglebeached wrote: post #24
plagiarist wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see insurers be sued for malpractice since they feel entitled to make medical decisions for people.

That will raise the price of insurance even more. Now you have to cover the cost of risk of suing your own insurance pool.

Alternatively, they could consider not having lone employees mass-denying procedures from a spreadsheet. Or at least stop using the AI that gets it wrong so often it's indistinguishable from intentional.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#26

Post by throwway120385 »

darth_avocado wrote: post #6

I have good insurance and I have unpaid medical bills for the following reason: 1. Visited a doctor 4 months ago, got a bill 3 months after the visit, paid it, then got a surprise second bill, which I have put off paying because I need to find time during my work hours to follow up on with the hospital + insurance. 2. Didn’t get bills for some of the visits I made in the last 3 months. 3. Insurance randomly denied cl…

This was us for my wife's pregnancy and delivery. Some of the bills were denied by Cigna for things that were covered according to their book. So we had to fight that. Cigna can take months to reprocess claims, which basically puts you into default with the hospital while you wait for the insurance to pay out for services that were supposed to be covered. We've done this after every medical event because Cigna always denies something that should be covered. And their accounting system doesn't work correctly which is something that is constantly your problem because they won't accumulate your out of pocket max or coinsurance correctly, so you CONSTANTLY have to call them about everything because it's always wrong.

Cigna is the worst insurance company I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. United Healthcare was slightly better but only slightly.

For a surprise bill, my wife got fired as a patient by the biggest clinic network in our area for a bill that she didn't know she had and that the agent she talked to wouldn't provide any evidence or itemization. The agent's response when asked was "you know what this is for you should just pay it." Sounds scammy, right? They keep buying clinics we're going to and then she stops being able to see her doctors afterward.

Private equity is destroying our healthcare system.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#28

Post by marcus0x62 »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #3

It's probably impossible to know the full extent of this, but some percentage of hospital debt comes from people that can fully afford their healthcare but are using the payment plans as no-interest loans while their money is invested elsewhere. The HSA accounts you get with the high-deductible plans allow you to park the money in self-directed IRA accounts for your entire life . In fact, tax law encourages you to do…

I’d like to know the full extent of this. I’d eat my shoe if it was more than a tenth of a percent of outstanding healthcare debt.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#29

Post by beaeglebeached »

plagiarist wrote: post #25
beaeglebeached wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will raise the price of insurance even more. Now you have to cover the cost of risk of suing your own insurance pool.

Alternatively, they could consider not having lone employees mass-denying procedures from a spreadsheet. Or at least stop using the AI that gets it wrong so often it's indistinguishable from intentional.

I think biggest problem is health insurance is now more like a weird HSA where insurer owns the money and operates as cartel. It might be cheaper for some to not even have it and just go to Mexico, maybe some minimal insurance only for emergency room.

Hard to call it insurance, when so much used for known chronic ongoing costs.

Re: Majority of debtors to US hospitals now people with health insurance

#30

Post by devilbunny »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #15
retrac wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would point out that the attending surgeon, the anaesthesiologist, and the hospital all bill the patient separately here for a surgery, in Ontario, Canada. (Most people will never see these bills and it's covered by the public insurance.) The reason is that the service - the contract - is organized in that way. Between the patient and the anaesthesiologist, between the patient and the surgeon, and between the patie…

But why is done that way? Lots of freelance chefs move between restaurants but the bill is always between the restaurant and the people who dine there.

Because historically doctors were in private practices. I still am, as an anesthesiologist. Many of the surgeons I work with are also private.

So, since neither of us is employed by the hospital, we do our own billing. If we were hospital employees, we could indeed do unified billing. That's a better analogy; your chefs are expecting to be paid by the restaurant, so it collects the bill. I am not paid by the hospital except a stipend for taking call for them - not for any specific services I provide to patients.

It's frustrating for patients and families, it's annoying for us, but it's the price of legal independence for us. If my hospital collapsed overnight (and they sometimes do), my group could go out and start working other sources of income right away, because we already have the business setup to do our own billing.

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