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Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

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Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#21

I met my first girlfriend on Usenet back in the mid-90s. She sent me a mixtape I still have and her writing Bush(x) next to some of the Bush songs confused me for many years. Lots of college-aged people were around Usenet for help, advice and just listen to me. Same goes for IRC. I don't know if I'd be here if it wasn't for the online mentorship of slightly older strangers keeping me going until I found IRL friends a…

What does bush x mean?

She was Canadian.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_(Canadian_band)#Name_di...

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#22
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve heard of Usenet, but never used it. It was big in the 90s. Well, 'big'. Before we had forums. You can think of it like public email. You got access through a usenet server, often provided by your ISP or University, and it had groups for more or less everything going. Servers would peer the data between them, though server admins would often have a whitelist of groups that they would replicate. Images were tran…

> in fact usenet was often the source of the binaries which then made their way to the torrent services Nah, it was always topsites and I strongly suspect they still are.

What is topsites?

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't being a Reddit clone the point though?

Reddit recreated the social structure of Usenet. Shared infrastructure, but the subreddits managed themselves. Topics, threads... all similar to Usenet. Better multimedia support, of course. Even the phenomenon of anonymous posters (because accounts didn't require an email for a long time), flames, crossposting... all very like usenet.

Usenet did not have moderators right? Reddit was more of a "run-a-forum as a service".

But the Big Drama made it clear that it's Reddit's forum, not yours. Bait and switch.

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#25
post #23

Practical question: How do you browse and search in mailing lists without Google Groups?

Open mailing lists often have public archives, for example https://www.mail-archive.com/. Many lists are subscribed to multiple public archives.

Those archives are often searchable on their own platforms, and are indexed by regular search engines too.

Now about mailing lists created using the google "groups" platform itself, is a different story. Does google index it's own group archives? No idea. Those were _already_ horrible to look at before and I've subscribed most of the ones I follow to other public archives to get something usable.

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit recreated the social structure of Usenet. Shared infrastructure, but the subreddits managed themselves. Topics, threads... all similar to Usenet. Better multimedia support, of course. Even the phenomenon of anonymous posters (because accounts didn't require an email for a long time), flames, crossposting... all very like usenet.

Usenet did not have moderators right? Reddit was more of a "run-a-forum as a service". But the Big Drama made it clear that it's Reddit's forum, not yours. Bait and switch.

Usenet did have moderation, as per this Reddit post (ironically):

https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputing/comments/m2dtcg/us...

Usenet preceded modern social media so the current discussions about who owns content didn't apply.

Reddit was remarkably open in the beginning. Anon accounts, light moderation, open API... it's when they decided to try to extract more value that it became really shitty.

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit recreated the social structure of Usenet. Shared infrastructure, but the subreddits managed themselves. Topics, threads... all similar to Usenet. Better multimedia support, of course. Even the phenomenon of anonymous posters (because accounts didn't require an email for a long time), flames, crossposting... all very like usenet.

Usenet did not have moderators right? Reddit was more of a "run-a-forum as a service". But the Big Drama made it clear that it's Reddit's forum, not yours. Bait and switch.

> Usenet did not have moderators right?

It depends on the newsgroup. Some of them did.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#28
post #6
post #5

The title could be misconstrued that Google groups is going to be discontinued. It won't be for a long time, simply because Google heavily relies on it internally.

They killed Google Code in 2016, and Google Code Search in 2012. Internally those types of products still exist, just not for public use. I see no reason Google groups could not also be killed for any public use.

Nope, those are entirely different codebases.

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#29

I’ve heard of Usenet, but never used it. It was once (maybe ~15 years ago) advertised as an alternative to torrents, but I don’t get the vibe that’s the primary use case. What can I do with Usenet? The internet has become so boring, I’d be open to exploring something else, but I’ve got no idea what Usenet is.

Usetnet was (technically still is) essentially decentralized text-only reddit, with an open protocol and a client you can choose. You can post/read on a global network. The problem is that very few groups are still active and probably dying.

Back in the day ISPs would give you an email account, some static web space accessible via FTP and access to the local NNTP (usenet) server as standard, which is why it was popular. usenet servers were peered with each other, sharing a large global namespace (servers could have local-only groups too, but that's a detail).

At the beginning, most of the online discussions happened there.

As open-source development grew, the main issue was that creating and getting approval for a group was bureaucratic/complicated and slow. As this was global and automatically peered, there was also a "minimum" number of requests to be eligible. For this reason, small groups started to move to mailing lists instead which didn't require special approval and became the new de-facto standard.

For a long time, bi-directional nntpmailing list software was standard for large lists. nntp clients were always designed to work with huge amount of messages efficiently compared to mail clients. I was following hundreds of groups at the time, and I still consider nntp fantastic from the user perspective.

Spam and trolls were another problem with such a public global network. Policing was hard. This is just a very short summary (it ignores completely the problem of piracy/warez and the binary split..)

Re: Looming Groupocalypse: The Google Groupsspaggheddon Cometh

#30
Wait. I'm confused. Google Groups was still interfacing with the Usenet? In a way that one could post to Usenet via Google Groups? I never knew that! I thought they were only hosting a read-only archive based on what they acquired with DejaNews. And I seem to recall a post about that having been discontinued... So this was somehow secretly all still alive? Damn.
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