Odd. No mention of natural gas? In the U.S., the most common plastic (polyethylene) is made from natural gas.
Peak plastic
21–30 of 41 posts
Re: Peak plastic
#22Convenient how you completely sidestep the issue of endocrine disruption, BPA, massive toxicity in the environment, or how plastics affects the human physiology. Toxic, oil-based plastics can not go away fast enough. You chemists have been poisoning humanity for far too long and now you seriously want to advocate using them more instead of looking for alternative solutions? You are a part of the problem.
Without plastics, I'd probably be dead right now. So, at least for my personal case, it's a worthwhile trade-off.
Re: Peak plastic
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using petrol on personal transportation is such a waste. I'd like to see a heavy carbon tax so that this fantastic, but finite, resource would be directed to things where it really adds value. The US subsidising wars to get more of it makes selfish sense, but to burn it immediately instead of building infrastructure is shameful.
> Using petrol on personal transportation is such a waste. I'd like to see a heavy carbon tax so that this fantastic, but finite, resource would be directed to things where it really adds value. Forgive me if I respect the decentralized distributed thinking of 6 billion people, including millions of economists, engineers, materials scientists, etc., over one random commenter on HN, but I personally have no reason wha…
And economists and engineers say we should be using oil for transport?
Re: Peak plastic
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using petrol on personal transportation is such a waste. I'd like to see a heavy carbon tax so that this fantastic, but finite, resource would be directed to things where it really adds value. The US subsidising wars to get more of it makes selfish sense, but to burn it immediately instead of building infrastructure is shameful.
> Using petrol on personal transportation is such a waste. I'd like to see a heavy carbon tax so that this fantastic, but finite, resource would be directed to things where it really adds value. Forgive me if I respect the decentralized distributed thinking of 6 billion people, including millions of economists, engineers, materials scientists, etc., over one random commenter on HN, but I personally have no reason wha…
Distributed thinking isn't rational even if the actors are, it all depends on the rules of the game. For example, the optimal strategy in a prisonner's dilemma hurts both players; tragedies of the commons have similar effects at a larger scale. There is no objective standard saying how much future discounting is rational, although obviously I'd prefer one that doesn't discount significantly until after one or two lifetimes.
Burning the stuff now is a perfect example of future discounting: it values having energy now over having something that can be used and reused. It's also an example of tragedy of the commons: the energy utility goes to whoever uses it, climate change is a cost for everyone, and unregulated markets don't minimise those costs.
Re: Peak plastic
#25The bigger problem is the medication sector which is based on the petrochemical industry (eg. aspirin). I'd rather eat on wooden plates than stay with a head-ache. probably even more life-indispensable drugs are made of petroleum. http://www.google.com/search?q=Pharmaceutical+drugs+made+fro... Plastic is easily replaceable with cleaner and healthier materials (glass, wood, ...) Not everywhere, but on the basic necess…
> I'd rather eat on wooden plates than stay with a head-ache As a hobbyist wood turner who makes my own wooden plates and bowls, I suggest that eating off of wooden plates (or "treen" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treen_(wooden) as it was called) is actually kind of nice. It takes no more time to wash, the texture is earthy and solid, it's hygenic, and it makes you feel in touch with your environment. (NOTE: I'm not a…
Link to your DIY CNCs?
Re: Peak plastic
#26The bigger problem is the medication sector which is based on the petrochemical industry (eg. aspirin). I'd rather eat on wooden plates than stay with a head-ache. probably even more life-indispensable drugs are made of petroleum. http://www.google.com/search?q=Pharmaceutical+drugs+made+fro... Plastic is easily replaceable with cleaner and healthier materials (glass, wood, ...) Not everywhere, but on the basic necess…
> I'd rather eat on wooden plates than stay with a head-ache As a hobbyist wood turner who makes my own wooden plates and bowls, I suggest that eating off of wooden plates (or "treen" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treen_(wooden) as it was called) is actually kind of nice. It takes no more time to wash, the texture is earthy and solid, it's hygenic, and it makes you feel in touch with your environment. (NOTE: I'm not a…
> it's hygenic
That's the main point for me
Re: Peak plastic
#27Wow. Sounds like a slightly less dire discussion of the sort of things that James Kunstler is always discussing on his site. http://www.kunstler.com/index.php I think Kunstler's site is a bit over the top, but it's an interesting "ha ha, only serious" view of peak oil. Things like this peak plastic article remind me that we better get to work on crazy stuff like fusion or orbiting solar powered microwave transmitters…
Fission power is good enough to avoid any decline. We just need to start building more of it...
Re: Peak plastic
#28Plastic is one of the most valuable things that can be made out of oil, and one of the things we will still use oil for when its availability is limited, simply because the utility per barrel of oil is much larger for plastic than for fuel.
Thus we will likely commute shorter distances before we cut down on plastic, though we may use fewer disposable plastic products than before.
Re: Peak plastic
#29I see no reason we can't make plastic out of biomaterials like corn. By the way, I never understand why they don't make roofs on houses out of plastic. It seems like they'd never degrade or leak, and it would be faster to install. Are shingles really that cheap?
There are premium roofing shingles and tiles made from plastic. If you see an unusual color of slate roof with regular shaped tiles or a repeating pattern of a couple feet, you may be looking at one. Cost wise, they fall between asphalt shingles and clay tiles or slate (that's a big spread). They can last better than asphalt and should need fewer repairs if you live in a hail or extreme wind area. Here is a project t…
Slate roofs are made from slate, not plastic.
Re: Peak plastic
#30The thing is, of the oil taken out of the earth, what percent has been used for plastic? I'm not sure but a very small portion. Now even if we're at peak oil now which is certainly not necessarily true, the Hubbert Curve (where the definition of peak oil comes from) shows that peak occurs when 50% of the oil has been extracted. Thus we can assume we have at least half the oil available to humanity not yet extracted (…
It was my understanding that the oil used for vehicle fuel and the oil used for plastic isn't even the same stuff. And that part of the refinement process for crude is to separate this out.
IIRC heating oil is a more-direct competitor for the particular type of oil that is used in plastics.