Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The difference between a programmer & a hacker

hackerjobs.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#21

Post by daly »

Well, not quite. I read a recent post that said that people over 35 should find other things to do with their life. Mark Zuckerberg is quoted as saying that young people are just better. Japanese companies won't hire programmers over 35. The programming business has somehow become the new "fashion" industry. Everybody wants "ninja rock stars" (somewhat a contradiction in terms I think).

As someone who is a programmer for 41 years, leads multiple open source projects, posts to github on a daily basis, and writes code every day I find this trend disturbing. I have interviewed for a job where I helped implement the compiler they use and I'm "not qualified for the job".

People ask me why I'm not in management. I've turned down several "promotions" in companies because I live to program. Why would I move from the top of my skill set to the bottom of a career I know nothing about?

So your advice is interesting but seems to have a target audience of recent graduates, not seasoned professionals. Look over your hiring record. I'm willing to bet that you have not hired anyone over 40, regardless of their github status.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#22

Post by drunkpotato »

Peroni wrote: post #10
gwat wrote: post #8

I always have a problem in mind while in college, and the problem becomes my real problem. If my day job requires me to work from 9am to 8pm, excluding 1 hour round trip commute, which is a norm in the city I am living in, how can I squeeze out time to maintain a meaningful github repo/ SO profile / tech blog? I really want to sharpen my skills AND display it, but my day job already take up literally half of my life.

I do understand your frustation and to be perfectly honest, I hear the same concern constantly . The fact is, if you're truly passionate about something, you'll find the time. I work a 60 hour week and I have a 2 year old boy and an impatient wife at home yet I find the time to dedicate at least a couple of hours a week to blogs, news, forums and so on and I can sincerely say that it doesn't have any significant impa…

I understand the frustration of trying to find talent in a sea of uselessness. (Not even mediocrity: I've interviewed candidates who could not explain a for loop, how to write one, or when to use one.)

However, you are trying to take your version of passion and project it onto everyone else, and I think that is harmful. If gwat is working 9-8 and in love with their job, they are passionate and don't need a github to prove it.

It's your phrase "truly passionate" that rubs me the wrong way, as did the content of the OP. Your definition of a True Hacker(tm) definitely does not match mine. Your post reminds me of a checklist for a recruiting fantasist's wet dream resume more than an explication of what makes hackers different, and I found it distasteful.

As always, YMMV. I can only speak to how the post struck me.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#23

Post by jrabone »

Increasingly, I'm thinking that "show us your GitHub" is a good filter for companies or recruiters I don't care to work for or with, but then perhaps I'm not the target market; I've been doing this for a while, I'm not a shiny new graduate.

When I've interviewed people in the past, I've had them do some coding or domain modelling / OO design exercise as a phone screen. On the other side, companies I've interviewed with have used coding exercises (live or on paper).

I don't agree with the "if you're truly passionate" argument; challenge me in an interview and you'll find out how passionate I can be :) That doesn't extend to wasting my time with the latest recruiter fad. If I want your job, and if you want to see code, ask me to write you something. Pick a language, I'm not choosy; I'll tell you if it's one I know or if I'll need some extra time to learn it, and if I'm not interested in a job using $SCRIPTING_LANGUAGE_OF_THE_WEEK$ we can stop there.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#24

Post by MatthewPhillips »

marcusf wrote: post #16

"You can't fake passion" Honestly though, this gives a decent three step template for how to get yourself on the top of the pile in about ~1-5h worth of work: 1. Register a GitHub account, fork some projects that look cool 2. Register a domain, set up a yourname.github.com page for hosting, and add your contact info and link to github, whatever. Set up a mail redirector. 3. Upload your own project. If you don't have…

Your fake passionate guy knows that GitHub is a place to get noticed, can write a json parser in python, can understand the basics of node.js, and can articulate the strengths and weaknesses of Java verbosity.

Fake or not, sounds hirable.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#26

Post by MatthewPhillips »

daly wrote: post #21

Well, not quite. I read a recent post that said that people over 35 should find other things to do with their life. Mark Zuckerberg is quoted as saying that young people are just better. Japanese companies won't hire programmers over 35. The programming business has somehow become the new "fashion" industry. Everybody wants "ninja rock stars" (somewhat a contradiction in terms I think). As someone who is a programmer…

Please don't be so polite. If a company is discriminating against "older" programmers, please call them out by name so the rest of us know to avoid them.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#27

Post by Peroni »

daly wrote: post #21

Well, not quite. I read a recent post that said that people over 35 should find other things to do with their life. Mark Zuckerberg is quoted as saying that young people are just better. Japanese companies won't hire programmers over 35. The programming business has somehow become the new "fashion" industry. Everybody wants "ninja rock stars" (somewhat a contradiction in terms I think). As someone who is a programmer…

I'm willing to bet that you have not hired anyone over 40, regardless of their github status.

You would lose that bet I'm afraid! To be fair, I've only ever hired one person over 40 and that was purely down to the fact that 95% of applicants I've received to any of my jobs to date are under 35.

You are right on one point, this advice is mainly geared towards younger professionals purely because someone with your breadth of experience I would expect to have plenty of worthwhile experience to surpass any 'popular' github repo.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#28

Post by yummyfajitas »

marcusf wrote: post #16

"You can't fake passion" Honestly though, this gives a decent three step template for how to get yourself on the top of the pile in about ~1-5h worth of work: 1. Register a GitHub account, fork some projects that look cool 2. Register a domain, set up a yourname.github.com page for hosting, and add your contact info and link to github, whatever. Set up a mail redirector. 3. Upload your own project. If you don't have…

People already do everything you said. It's pretty easy to spot. Just look for a bunch of forked projects with no commits by the person in question, a high ratio of forked to original projects, etc.

The biggest giveaway is that there are no projects which are just for fun.

Incidentally, I've observed that the "just for fun" projects is a good trick for identifying a serious economist as well. A real economist Tyler Cowen obsesses over the economics of finding good restaurants and whatever else tickles his fancy, whereas a pretender like Krugman is all serious policy issues (both examples of economists who's policy I tend to disagree with).

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#29

Post by VolatileVoid »

This bothers me. I consider myself very passionate about programming - I think most people who know me would consider me to be a hacker.

That said, I work for a company that does not allow its code to be open-sourced. The job is demanding and after I put in 60+ hours a week, I simply feel worn out. On top of that, I have an 8 month old son which means that my sleep is fragmented at the best of times.

If you're unwilling to take the time to have a conversation with me to see my passion (and this is something I firmly believe comes across in any interview) then I am unwilling to waste my precious time with my son to have an inane dialog about my lack of a public portfolio.

Re: The difference between a programmer & a hacker

#30

Post by jrabone »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #24
marcusf wrote: post #16

"You can't fake passion" Honestly though, this gives a decent three step template for how to get yourself on the top of the pile in about ~1-5h worth of work: 1. Register a GitHub account, fork some projects that look cool 2. Register a domain, set up a yourname.github.com page for hosting, and add your contact info and link to github, whatever. Set up a mail redirector. 3. Upload your own project. If you don't have…

Your fake passionate guy knows that GitHub is a place to get noticed, can write a json parser in python, can understand the basics of node.js, and can articulate the strengths and weaknesses of Java verbosity. Fake or not, sounds hirable.

Your fake passionate guy knows that GitHub is a place to get noticed, can cut and paste a json parser in python, can follow a node.js tutorial, and can parrot the cool kids bitching about Java verbosity.

Sounds pretty standard graduate fare, but can they solve an actual coding problem with me? I don't mind what language they use, and they can have any IDE from a pencil and paper to a modern autocompleting behemoth.

Post reply on HN