Live data from Hacker News

Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

blog.jpl-consulting.com

21–30 of 65 posts

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#21
Very simple regarding what to do.

A provisional patent application costs you $120 to file. No one even looks at it, until you file the real one. However, "patent pending" sends the message that ripping your idea off could cause legal repercussions and might not be worth it. If the person you're talking to thinks it's obvious, then both the patent application and NDA would have been ineffective. If it's something not obvious, then the "patent pending" is a great way to show you think the idea is soooo special, without requiring the other person to sign anything.

But of course, the best thing to have is execution and traction :)

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#22
An idea on its own is worth little, the key is execution. Any reasonably intelegent person can teach themselves enough code to at least make a demo or mockup. If you think about it the original Twitter demo could have been made from a Wordpress blog by limiting the number of characters in a post to 140, making a theme and alowing users to post. If you can't commit to even building a basic demo how are you going to be useful when the really hard stuff starts? You can't expect to only do what you're good at, there is a certain amount of personal growth that needs to take place along the way.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#23
post #16

The "no NDA" thing is getting out of hand. NDA's have a time and a place. That place is not when you're meeting someone to talk for the first time. Nobody wants to increase their legal risk for a chance meeting, which will likely not turn into anything interesting - especially contract developers, investors, and the like (whose future business may be impacted by NDA's). The answer is simple: state your idea in terms…

Unique application of deep domain knowledge: secret sauce, or no?

If it's just the combination of your personal experience and an idea, no. As an investor, or developer, or competitor, it's still just an idea. You cannot transfer your deep domain knowledge to me over coffee.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#24
I'm a pretty big believer in the idea the ideas are emergent phenomena. On creative days, I can average an idea a minute. Most of these are things I've heard already and forgotten (except some small part in the back of my head) or combinations of 2 or 3 comments/blogs or papers or whatever I've read here or elsewhere. Also most of them are crap. An even higher portion of the "original" ones are crap. But the ones that make it through my internal filter are usually not full ideas in themself, no matter how excited I am about them. (and again, most of those are crap too)

I suspect a lot of people work this way, based on conversations etc. Some people just don't realize it. A lot more ideas have already been done/started by someone.

What does this mean to me? It means that a lot of the new things are logical, or semi logical progressions (or at least natural extensions via human thought).

As I see more of this, I've started tracking how bits of thought and idea float through groups/networks of people[1]. I've decided that the basic notion of "my idea" is broken. In my experience ideas are usually the result of bouncing thoughts through a pile of distributed human nodes, getting filtered/modified/improved, until finally someone has "a flash of brilliance". Then finally a good idea emerges.

So I don't worry about people stealing my ideas. They probably aren't mine. The are ours (for a pretty large our). Instead I've decided that unless I am prepared to execute, and can gather the team to do so, the best course of action is to keep my thoughts streaming through the network. They will grow and build, and may help others get to execution of something awesome.

When I do plan to execute, then I will be a bit more careful about talking and spreading the thought, but I still find that until something solid is being produced, an NDA (or social implicit version thereof) really isn't needed. Everyone that can execute is probably already executing their own ideas and doesn't have time/energy to "take" it from you. There are more ideas than doers. (corollary: those who will try to steal probably can't execute...)

Finally, since there are more ideas than doers, even if your idea is taken, there is another one coming down the pipe tomorrow :)

[1] This is an interesting game. It is very hard to figure out how to formalize (probably because I don't care that much) but for example I've tossed some thought out in meetings, then seen it appear later in a another meeting in better/different form a week or two later, no attribution, but thats ok, its just experiment. Similarly, in college when I bartended (and thus was a member of a small core network of college-town bartenders with lots of links to the rest of the campus) I would play the 'rumor game'. I would randomly mention stuff (true or not) about me near known gossips, just to see how it would bounce around the network and see what came back. Highly amusing, and very informative in relation to this too.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#25
post #16

The "no NDA" thing is getting out of hand. NDA's have a time and a place. That place is not when you're meeting someone to talk for the first time. Nobody wants to increase their legal risk for a chance meeting, which will likely not turn into anything interesting - especially contract developers, investors, and the like (whose future business may be impacted by NDA's). The answer is simple: state your idea in terms…

Unique application of deep domain knowledge: secret sauce, or no?

I would say "it depends" however someone without the deep domain knowledge would have a difficult time executing so you most likely don't need an NDA anyway.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#26
Over time, I've come to think of the 'huge idea, but I can't protect it or deliver on it' as a 'not huge idea'.

As entrepreneurs, we (at least I) are constantly coming up with and assessing new business ideas, strategic spins, etc.

This is just one more metric that a bit of wisdom teaches us to apply to our ideas. It is hard, very hard, for people who aren't used to the ideate-evaluate-rubbish-bin cycle, though.

How many thousands of business ideas have I gone through for the launch of the 10-ish businesses I've actually launched? Quite a lot. Even with all that weeding out and continually increasing experience (sigh), it's still a long slog. I constantly have 'great' ideas that on application of my own rules and the wisdom gleaned over the years turn out to be 'meh' to 'really bad idea, avoid!!'

In our line of work, anything that needs an NDA and could only be delivered by a large player, and the only thing stopping them is that they haven't thought of it yet is emphatically not worth pursuing.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#27

I'm a pretty big believer in the idea the ideas are emergent phenomena. On creative days, I can average an idea a minute. Most of these are things I've heard already and forgotten (except some small part in the back of my head) or combinations of 2 or 3 comments/blogs or papers or whatever I've read here or elsewhere. Also most of them are crap. An even higher portion of the "original" ones are crap. But the ones tha…

>>> Finally, since there are more ideas than doers, even if your idea is taken, there is another one coming down the pipe tomorrow :)

This has to be one of the hardest things to remember for entrepreneurs, especially new ones. I frequently have to remember not to fall too hard for some cool idea, and I've been at this for a while now..

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#28
post #20
post #5

It's very rare that I see the "my idea alone is worth money" thing from people who have built actual businesses. I know that I would never pay for an idea alone. That's partly because it's not like we have a dearth of them. If we didn't have a new idea for the next year, that wouldn't be a problem; we have a giant backlog of excellent ideas. But we'll keep having new ideas. We're constantly looking at user experience…

pretty much a copy of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3868084 , but: The case of having ideas when you don't know anything, I think we all agree, is silly for having a "secret sauce." The more interesting discussion is what to do when you have an idea and you know a helluva lot? This is the case where I think you have to be careful. Yes, ideas without execution aren't worth much- but if your executable idea lands…

If you have that much depth of knowledge, then I think the idea is going to have similar depth. In which case you come up with a short summary that doesn't give away any of the key insights.

But even if you're generous with information, the idea probably isn't at that much risk. The idea would have to end up in the hands of somebody who not only could out-execute you, but also has the time and interest to do so, is smart enough to recognize the value of your idea, and isn't already attached to some idea of their own.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unique application of deep domain knowledge: secret sauce, or no?

If it's just the combination of your personal experience and an idea, no. As an investor, or developer, or competitor, it's still just an idea. You cannot transfer your deep domain knowledge to me over coffee.

Yes, definitely. If you're talking to an investor, they're not going to be able to fully appreciate a deep domain insight anyhow. You tell them about what they can appreciate: the size of the market, the cost of bringing your product to market, and the problem you are solving for your future customers.

Re: Re. No NDAs: What Should Idea People Do?

#30

Great article. I have made some iPhone apps and websites that have been moderately successful and it seems to pull all the "I have an idea" people out of the woodwork. Maybe it's a result of still being younger and around college, or just a bit older than college age people, but I can't even count how many times an acquaintance has been generous enough to "offer me half" of something of which they have no concept of…

I probably shouldn't mention it so publicly, but once you've built a profitable product, you are allowed to stab one of these "offer you half" business majors per year. You will shortly receive a handy wallet-sized card with the number to call for body disposal.

Remember: use your quota wisely. There are a lot of idiots out there.

Post reply on HN