What is the difference between a gig worker versus a freelancer? Is this going to hurt your ability to be freelance? I would love to understand this better in the proposal as it wasn't clear to me how they define this difference.
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Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
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Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#22What is the difference between a gig worker versus a freelancer? Is this going to hurt your ability to be freelance? I would love to understand this better in the proposal as it wasn't clear to me how they define this difference.
I think the subtitle summarises it pretty good: "If it looks like a job, and is supervised like a job, it'll be classified as a job". The bullet points down the article make it even clearer. Freelancing implies some independence/freedom which most uber or deliveroo drivers don't have in practice. For example in France you can't declare yourself as a freelancer if you have a single client which dictates your working h…
But they don't dictate the working hours. Also many of the gig workers around my area work for multiple competing companies. We have multiple different Uber's and many are using multiple of those.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Going back to gig workers, it sounds like you agree that they're actually contractors and shouldn't be classed as employees? All the stuff you described isn't very applicable to gig workers.
Some are some aren't. The uber driver with 10k trips per year isn't, the student delivering food on saturday is.
What about a gig worker who works whenever they feel like, get up to 150 hours per month overall, but also use 3 different Uber like companies to constantly compare which one has better offering at the time?
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So it's only gig working if you work full time? Nope > What about other freelancers that work full time? Should they be classed as employees too, or are we singling out gig workers here? These questions are answered in the article
The article says >It also sets rules that mean digital platform workers will be considered employees if at least two of the following five conditions are met: >* If the employer caps worker payments; >* If the employer supervises worker performance, directly or electronically; >* If the employer has control over the distribution or allocation of tasks; >* If the employer has control over working conditions and workin…
Also all of those rules are so vague, it could be argued in any case someone is doing some of that in any sort of deal.
1. Company A has a max budget for contractor B or project B.
2. In most cases performance is supervised at least to some extent?
3. Not sure what that exactly means. What are tasks? What is control of distribution or allocation?
4. What does control mean? What if they have a dynamic pricing rate which yields higher payment on certain times and less on other times?
5. When a contractor hires a subcontractor or any sort of contracting is done, in most cases there's also expectation of such things.
By the way if you make those rules, people will 100% start to play around them in order to be categorised in A or B way.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The problem is that they don't contribute nearly as much to the system and they're in very precarious situations: no contribution to retirement, no paid vacations, no parental leave, no unemployment benefits, &c. All of this is applicable to contract work in general, not just gig work. Why not fix it for all contractors rather than only gig workers?
Because some people are genuinely contractors while others are disguised employees. I also don't see the inherent problem with contractors, some jobs require it, some people want the flexibility. The issue with "gig workers" is that a lot of them end up with all the disadvantage of being employe, all the disadvantage of being contractors, and none of the benefits of either.
But "no contribution to retirement, no paid vacations, no parental leave, no unemployment benefits, &c." seem like pretty big concerns for most workers. I don't see how they evaporate for non-gig contract workers.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#26More reasons for Europe to get less investments
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#27This is probably bad news on aggregate The positive intent to give citizens greater protections is laudable but gig working is not always a straight forward 'capitalism bad' exploitation as it is often characterised. For many, it is the only type of job / income they can secure (i.e recent immigrant) and otherwise would be locked out of the legal economy altogether and will transition into the _illegal_ economy for w…
In the vast majority of cases, gig workers are exploited. They have no protections, and don't get the same rights as employees do (no health insurance, no vacation time, etc). This is bad all around and should not be permitted if you want better working conditions. Too many people working the 'gig' economy are working full-time hours with no added benefits.
We're just going backwards with the 'gig' economy by allowing bigco to exploit people in this manner.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#28This is probably bad news on aggregate The positive intent to give citizens greater protections is laudable but gig working is not always a straight forward 'capitalism bad' exploitation as it is often characterised. For many, it is the only type of job / income they can secure (i.e recent immigrant) and otherwise would be locked out of the legal economy altogether and will transition into the _illegal_ economy for w…
They aren't eliminating gig work, they are just ensuring that if you want to categorize your workers as contractors, you have to treat them as contractors. Companies are taking advantage of loose definitions to blur the lines, they want the benefits of employees without the liabilities. This forces them to decide, do you actually want contractors, or do you want employees? The workers that stay as contractors will have more freedom and ability to set their own work boundaries. The workers that get converted to employees will get better benefits and stability. On average, workers will be better off. There will be companies going either route so gig workers should be able to find a company that matches their needs.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#29More reasons for Europe to get less investments
If investment means worker exploitation, all the better.
Re: Europe inches closer to insisting gig workers are treated as employees
#30What is the difference between a gig worker versus a freelancer? Is this going to hurt your ability to be freelance? I would love to understand this better in the proposal as it wasn't clear to me how they define this difference.
I think the subtitle summarises it pretty good: "If it looks like a job, and is supervised like a job, it'll be classified as a job". The bullet points down the article make it even clearer. Freelancing implies some independence/freedom which most uber or deliveroo drivers don't have in practice. For example in France you can't declare yourself as a freelancer if you have a single client which dictates your working h…
This applies only if the firm is present in France. If you contract for a firm in say Germany, afaik the rule no longer applies