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Bad NEWS, Emacs

eshelyaron.com

21–30 of 250 posts

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#21
post #3

OpenSource working as intended, no?

Sure, in the sense that they can differ and co-exist? Of course it's much better in OSS when differences can be resolved so that more people may work together on fewer forks, so discussion should come before forks most of the time. The author seems to be doing exactly the right thing - tried to contribute to the shared work, voice their concerns and thought process, and ultimately fork in protest.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#22
post #9
post #6

Assuming any particular commit in git represents the eventual state of a release seems foolhardy.

That's not the author's point. They did try to improve the behavior in a future commit and were shot down. Hard it seems. So were any requests from others to change this before release.

[flagged]

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#23
post #13

It's a good rant, but it probably doesn't help its case that it doesn't stop to explain what the feature it's talking about actually is. Emacs registers are a really, really old abstraction. Registers are like separate clipboards, you can put stuff there and pull it out. And there are 62 of them (each associated with a core ASCII symbol: [a-zA-Z0-9]), giving you a lot of flexibilty and a very quick keyboard interface…

‘Default bindings’ sounds like it’s configurable to be different. Is it?

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#25

I don’t fully understand the nature/impact of the change but this conflict seems so minor to me. Like, people on both sides display the same level of entitlement but for different reasons, and they all think they have their are “right”. Hum, no, for outsiders you all appear stubborn and lacking ability to compromise. “Oh my gosh, I’ll have to press 1 extra key now, this project is doomed!”, “no no no, this little cha…

I disagree. As a developer I think breaking literally decades old workflows for users without notice or any level of concern is a bad thing. For a program with users so reliant on muscle memory, I think the impact is far worse.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's explained in the article.

I’m not an Emacs user and also failed to understand what went wrong. So they changed a default shortcut or something?

I also don't really use emacs. But by the sounds of it, when you want to use a command that involves a register, you get a mini-popup where you input the register you want.

The downside is that you must push enter after you enter the register you want.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#27

I don’t fully understand the nature/impact of the change but this conflict seems so minor to me. Like, people on both sides display the same level of entitlement but for different reasons, and they all think they have their are “right”. Hum, no, for outsiders you all appear stubborn and lacking ability to compromise. “Oh my gosh, I’ll have to press 1 extra key now, this project is doomed!”, “no no no, this little cha…

Inventing new things who cares, but for existing key sequences its a problem even if the new sequence would have been better. Imagine when some of these soft cars start adding power steering in an overnight update.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#28
post #9
post #6

Assuming any particular commit in git represents the eventual state of a release seems foolhardy.

That's not the author's point. They did try to improve the behavior in a future commit and were shot down. Hard it seems. So were any requests from others to change this before release.

Not only that, but the author of the original offending change asked the author of this blog to write a patch to make the change optional within the UI and then rejected the patch that was written. That seems like bad faith to me.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#29
post #20

> Since then, another bug report came in from a Emacs master branch user that suffered from one of the consequences of this change (a specific regression that I spelled out days before, but was ignored, for some reason), and several users reached out to the Emacs development in request to restore the previous behavior in an ongoing thread titled “Please, Restore Previous Behavior for jump-to-register”. Astonishingly,…

While I understand your point, emacs is changing very specific behavior, that was intended, to do something new now. So I would say you're xkcd comment is slightly off.

> emacs is changing very specific behavior, that was intended, to do something new now

No? It changes how an existing command behaves.

> This commit crippled all user interaction with Emacs registers, turning commands such as C-x r s, once smooth and frictionless, into a cumbersome and painful mess. Concretely, instead of just typing the key for the register you want to operate on, you now get a fully blown minibuffer for inserting a single key.

Re: Bad NEWS, Emacs

#30

I am a Vim guy. Can someone explain what exactly is broken?

They did the Emacs equivalent of adding a confirmation dialog to an action which some people do very frequently (like tens of times per minute). I think it also fundamentally breaks some rarer use cases I would have trouble explaining to non-Emacs users, but do seem somewhat valuable.

It's not clear to me from the messages I read why this can't be worked around without a hard fork, although I do agree it's an obvious bad decision to begin with, and obvious to me even as someone who barely uses this feature.

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