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Just Your Handyman

plough.com

21–30 of 82 posts

Re: Just Your Handyman

#21
post #10
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

You may not be able to do whatever you want, but you can often get a lot further than you think. The first few years after school are the time to shoot for the moon.

And if you don’t, who cares. Failing at 23 isn’t fatal and probably teaches you a lot more than mediocre success.

Everyone’s so scared of going for something and missing, or deciding it’s actually not as fun or interesting as you thought.

Young people should have big dreams.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#22
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

Trading off satisfaction/mental health benefits with the very real stress of "a financially challenging life" is something I am constantly confronted with when I look at our son's life (now 34). In some ways I admire his committment to NOT working 40 hours a week, so that he has time and energy for his art and music which is what really makes being alive worth it for him. But when he doesn't even earn enough to pay for a place to live, has no savings, no real future prospects of anything changing ... I am not sure that his satisfaction at working on art/music can balance that out.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#23

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, yo…

Those are good distinctions. I'm a 13-year software engineer, and a 4-year part time finish carpenter.

An important distinction that comes up for me a lot is that it's much harder to fix mistakes with physical stuff. I can rapidly iterate on software, try stuff, see what works, play with a concept. But if I do that with wood and nails, I'm going to be in for trouble. Each idea costs material, and if it's a repair, there can be no going back. "Iterative development" really isn't a thing. This has gotten me in trouble - my instinct is to explore a problem, but I find that physical stuff requires more intellectual planning up-front, counterintuitively.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#24

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. I've long observed that modern culture and media seem to be really stuck on this idea that kids everywhere are having their dreams held back by evil adults…

Well said. Educators and parents don't do a great job of saying "if you want to be A, then you should work on your V skills" or "while you may be passionate about C, it is not a career.. have you considered D,E,F?". And also for those going off to college it would be useful to have the hard conversation early "while it may be fun to live in G HCOL city for 4 years, if you want to make a life there, you are going to n…

He didn't mean it in this way at all (it was really a reference to how to live in a racially discriminatory society) but I always liked James Farmer's

> We do what we have to so we can do what we want to

Re: Just Your Handyman

#25

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, yo…

> One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body.

Oh, for sure. I was a dev for many years, then switched to product design. What I left out of my first comment was that my older brother is a maintenance guy for a hospital—basically a handyman with an office in the basement. Growing up, it was clear that he was at least as smart as me, but at a certain point he went one direction and I went another. Cut to 25-30 years later: his body is a wreck, mine is okay (modulo poor diet and lack of exercise), he's always broke, and I'm doing alright.

When I said that our jobs are very similar, I just meant that, like a handyman, much of what a SWE does is basically attaching one thing to another thing while cursing. That's a joke, but you get what I mean. My point was that neither are rocket science, but we shouldn't think we're especially smart for being programmers just because we get paid too much for it. Add the physical element of handyman work to that and that just underlines the point I wanted to make.

> I strongly disagree with "all the out of work engineers and designers will move into those industries.

This is timely. I said that because I was thinking about it yesterday, when talking to some friends about what they'd do if and when AI obviated their current jobs (which is in the realm of possibility). A common answer was that they'd become electricians. I think there are at least two problems with that: one is the physical aspect of being a tradesman, which nobody thinks about. The other is that there would certainly be more people going into the trades, not less, if those industries became a safe harbor from AI. Many of these people would wash out, sure, but at least some of them (like yourself) wouldn't. That, combined with all the upper-middle-class people being suddenly broke, would probably drive down wages for people who work with their hands. I can't imagine anything else happening, though of course I could be wrong.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#26
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

> Unfortunately many of these trade-offs are presented financially to kids; that doing what you love may result in a financially challenging life, and ignore the satisfaction and mental health benefits that would derive from such a choice

While not strictly true, it’s very much true in the general sense. Many of our passions don’t make us money. Like it or not, living in society requires quite a lot of money.

Struggling financially puts a strain on mental health, job satisfaction, relationships, etc. It dominates your experiences, your thoughts, your food, and ultimately your lifespan. It’s *hard*.

“Work hard”, “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life”, “my passion is my work”, blah blah blah. These extremes taint the thought process of our children. As a society we poisoned the minds of multiple generations.

We _should_ be teaching children that their job does not define them. That “do what you love” is unrealistic. Do what allows you to be comfortable and do what you love. Will you have be able to humblebrag on social media? Probably not. Will you be in the top 10% financially? Probably not. Will you not struggle financially and have time to do the things you actually love (family, friends, hobbies, whatever)? Hopefully! That’s the goal.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#27
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

There's a little too much focus on the distant future, which is very abstract for everyone to consider, especially children. Really, you can pursue anything you want to, regardless of the time horizon that you have considered it in. Walk down the street and see something interesting over the road? then cross over and take a look. Play with the a keyboard in the shop and like the feel? buy a cheap one, get some lesson…

Also, very sadly, but not uncommonly, the child may not get to enjoy the fruits of the focus on the future, because they may die. In my life:

- A girl in my class aged 11 was killed by a bus.

- A boy I knew aged 17 killed himself and girlfriend by driving into a tree.

- A competitor at work aged 27 had a bad cold, went to the doctor and was rushed to hospital due to suspected Liver cancer and died on the operating table that afternoon.

- Good friend at aged 29 A got a brain disease and died over three years.

- Good friend at aged 31 got leukemia, recovered, got it back a year later and had an allergic reaction to the chemo and died.

The last three were all high flyers - two or three degrees, published etc. They had (like me) sacrificed a lot to get where they had and were just (at that time) beginning to reap some rewards. The last fella in particular had just bought a house, got a steady girl who was good for him and had had an "inflection" type promotion. All for nothing.

Teach children to enjoy it while they can. Maybe that gives them 9 happy years, or maybe 90. (edited for formatting)

Re: Just Your Handyman

#28
post #10
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

You may not be able to do whatever you want, but you can often get a lot further than you think. The first few years after school are the time to shoot for the moon.

It depends on their support system. The years from 18-24 can be brutal. A few mistakes ("just a year off to travel", credit card debt, a pointless major chosen to have an easier time in class and more left for socializing) can burn bridges that aren't even on your radar.

Once you get into living paycheck to paycheck, esp. if you're supporting a family, your options are severely restricted. It doesn't mean you can't live a happy, peaceful, maybe even more purposeful life. But most people really don't understand how significant these decisions can be at 18.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#29
post #16
post #6

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. This is the danger of participation awards. It's how people end up in careers they aren't suited to. As a society, we owe it to our children to be honest w…

I mean, best done as a gradient no? In first grade, you 100% tell them they can be whatever they want, by the end of 12th (or however it works where you are) they should be honestly looking at what sort of things make money to handle that part of life. But also, you know, how to be happy and such.

Is this just because they can't yet grasp the complexity of "whatever you want", so it's pointless to get into the details?

Re: Just Your Handyman

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, yo…

Those are good distinctions. I'm a 13-year software engineer, and a 4-year part time finish carpenter. An important distinction that comes up for me a lot is that it's much harder to fix mistakes with physical stuff. I can rapidly iterate on software, try stuff, see what works, play with a concept. But if I do that with wood and nails, I'm going to be in for trouble. Each idea costs material, and if it's a repair, th…

IMO this is the defining characteristic of software development. It's why I love it, and why the processes that support doing it well are different from other types of projects.

I also think other disciplines will inevitably move more in this direction. Once things can be accurately modeled and tested with computers, the iteration cycle becomes similar. You do have to eventually build the "machine", but I think that will become more and more automated, sortof like a compiler.

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