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Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

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Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#21

Post by teruakohatu »

phh wrote: post #11

> Final thought: Every user should be able to choose a "Notification Provider" for every app That is too much I think? It would be weird to trust one notification provider for some stuff, and another one for others? Every user should be able to choose a "Notification Provider" is IMO enough. On that front, there is already a push standard which is called WebPush which allows to do this seemlessly. Except it's only in…

> On that front, there is already a push standard which is called WebPush which allows to do this seemlessly. Except it's only in browsers

My understanding is that this uses centralized servers maintained by each browser vendor.

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#22

Post by benterix »

Nextgrid wrote: post #18

It's disappointing to see everyone freaking out about this while ignoring the hundreds of different analytics SDKs littering every single mainstream app out there that leak even more metadata and store it on the provider's server (unlike push notifications which can be end-to-end encrypted).

One doesn't exclude the other - we regularly criticize tracking code in general.

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#23

Post by xrd »

I'm using Zoho as my main email hosting provider. Can I use tuta as the client? Should I?

I like Zoho stability and pricing. And, the client is somewhat poor compared to Gmail, to be honest. I like the scheduled send and snooze options of Gmail, but cannot figure out if Zoho provides similar functionality.

What is the best client for non-Gmail? Scheduled-send and snooze are probably server side functionality, so it isn't just the client. But, there must be a better client than the Zoho one!

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#25

Post by fidotron »

raggi wrote: post #3

I campaigned for this for years when working on fuchsia, to folks in fuchsia and android folks. We lack a unixy API for “the radio is now on, do your reconnects or send your queues” The platforms always hoist this stuff higher level and it rarely works that well. Platform leads insist the platform will do it better, but it’s never true. They also insist that persistent connections are battery killers - which for sure…

The Play Services people would have a stronger case if FB Messenger hadn't outperformed them on so many metrics of this type for years. One of the shocks of Copperhead/Graphene is how the absence of the play service push mechanism radically improves your battery life.

It is definitely the case that doing such things efficiently, especially in the world of evolving radio technology, is beyond the absolutely overwhelming majority of mobile app developers, and apparently in many cases even very good ones. It also seems unlikely that having the platform poll a process to then do the push (as your API would, in response to something like a radio burst about to be made) is a good idea, as keeping the app process asleep if at all possible is distinctly preferable, and most devs struggle with what is a real time constraint. An API to achieve this is definitely buildable though, it does require offloading a certain amount to the platform.

The truth is centralized services are strategic for the platform owner these days, so any technical argument for them will really be on that basis.

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#26

Post by rollcat »

seydor wrote: post #24

Why not just an SMTP extension. Send notifications via email, which expire after X seconds. No need to reinvent the mail

Because such a protocol has to be designed with battery efficiency and mobile data usage in mind. Typical message should be no more than 1 byte.

I like Pushover's protocol design: https://pushover.net/api/client#websocket>

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#28

Post by ssss11 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #18

It's disappointing to see everyone freaking out about this while ignoring the hundreds of different analytics SDKs littering every single mainstream app out there that leak even more metadata and store it on the provider's server (unlike push notifications which can be end-to-end encrypted).

Criticise it all…

Man I went to a supermarket website the other day and received 87 cookies for free

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#29

Post by tinus_hn »

seydor wrote: post #24

Why not just an SMTP extension. Send notifications via email, which expire after X seconds. No need to reinvent the mail

The interesting part is not in sending the messages but in receiving them. How are you going to fetch that email?

Re: Apple and Google Monitor Notifications. We Need Push Notification Alternatives

#30

Post by politelemon »

misnome wrote: post #9
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #4

rich coming from tuta who still lack a onion based login. this ticket from 2018 was locked as off-topic. https://github.com/tutao/tutanota/issues/528 as lenin said, the best way to control the opposition is to lead it. for me, unless the company has been raided by the government they simply cannot be trusted. apple proudly advertises privacy on huge billboards while sharing everything they are asked under shadow laws…

It’s hypocrisy and double standards to follow the law? You say “Shadow law” as though it’s them being nefarious. I don’t know anyone who interprets Apple’s stance on Privacy as “They will break the law for you”, only in contrast to… everyone else (?) selling your advertising data?

It is hypocrisy to advertise yourself as something that you are not. Yours is a deliberate mis-telling or misinterpretation to make them appear saying something they're not.

> I don’t know anyone who interprets Apple’s stance on Privacy as “They will break the law for you”, only in contrast to… everyone else (?) selling your advertising data?

I know that most people will assume that everything is private and hidden away based on their marketing campaigns; assuming that privacy = breaking the law is something you are foisting on, and is in poor form.

Either you are deep inside the HN/Apple reality distortion field or avoiding acknowledgment that a problem has existed for a long time, which needs addressing. This isn't uncommon on HN sadly, I will usually see similar mental gymnastic performed whenever there's any slightly negative news about Apple.

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