Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 325 posts

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#21

Post by Xelbair »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

they care about profit. they have to. At least in the US:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#22

Post by pera »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

> Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE

They do care about profit margins, which is why they outsource slavery.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#23

Post by RCitronsBroker »

docflabby wrote: post #11

In a world run by sociopaths - whistleblowing is a trap to catch the people who could if instead of reporting the issues, they organised together and then could stop you... I've yet to see any whistleblowing case not end badly.

one case that consoles me is that harry markopolous, the quant who blew the whistle on madoff and his feeder funds-of-funds, despite rigorously not being listened to and almost being railroaded by an SEC coverup, at least got some sort of payout for his pain and suffering that went on for years. I cannot recommend his book enough.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#24

Post by throwawaysleep »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

My experience of whistleblowing even here in the west is that usually it goes very very badly. The only real thing open to you is to refuse to do anything unethical, quit and walk away. Many people can't afford to do that. Things ought to be different but we live in corrupt societies where the law is different for the rich and powerful than for everyone else.

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives.

I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#25

Post by aleph_minus_one »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

> What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly share my moral ideals

Are you really sure that these people share your own moral ideals? ;-)

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#26

Post by hackerlight »

mrweasel wrote: post #10
sgjohnson wrote: post #6

Slavery is de-facto legal in China and their justice system is rotten to the core. Is this really news to anyone? I would be surprised if this had ended differently.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

> continues to do business with China ... It's absolutely disgusting.

I want to inject some nuance here. Competition in the labor market, which drives business to low- or middle-income countries like China, is really really good for the typical low-middle income person in China. If wealthy countries pulled out entirely, then China's GDP per capita will probably drop from $12,000 back to sub-$5,000 and you will be causing more suffering for the people you're concerned about. By all means, advocate for better pay and conditions and regulations, but don't advocate for pulling out of poor or middle income countries with lax labor protections entirely. It wasn't clear to me which avenue you're arguing for but I feel it's an important point worth stressing.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#27

Post by jackdaniel »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #24
PaulKeeble wrote: post #16

My experience of whistleblowing even here in the west is that usually it goes very very badly. The only real thing open to you is to refuse to do anything unethical, quit and walk away. Many people can't afford to do that. Things ought to be different but we live in corrupt societies where the law is different for the rich and powerful than for everyone else.

Not surprising that it will go badly. Most of us have some secrets to hide, so the individuals that make up society have an incentive to exclude such people from their lives. I couldn’t trust a whistleblower. While grateful for a lot of the work they do, I never want to be their target and would never risk getting close to them.

While I disagree with your opinion, I appreciate a lot that you've stated it. That's a very honest thing to say.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#28

Post by laborcontract »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #18
avidiax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that Bezos has never read this letter. An underling of his would never present this letter to him unless Bezos has specifically asked to be presented such letters, and the fallout from this letter will never be sufficient to warrant his attention. It's unfortunate that American and European voters don't realize that allowing our companies to do business with places famous for worker's rights abuses and…

> I would guess that Bezos has never read this letter. I would guess someone might have informed him of this letter or he might even as well have read it already. What I would not guess about is whether he would give two fucks about it. Because no he would not. Yes, he and his company has proven this. Business and profit over all else. That is not just really a Chinese problem. It surprises me how people still love t…

  It surprises me how people still love to try to think that “oh this is such a horrors!
You got me there, fella. Deeply dreadful nihilism has never been one of my strong points.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#29

Post by 0dayz »

Xelbair wrote: post #21
mrweasel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slavery and working conditions in China no longer really surprises me, what I do struggle to understand is that Western companies apparently DO NOT CARE. I can sort of accept, reluctantly, that the Chinese have a different way to thinking than I do and that I can't necessarily apply my moral code to China. What I cannot accept or understand is that the owners and managers of Western companies, who supposedly shar…

they care about profit. they have to. At least in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co .

That one literally states it's uncertain if it is the case that corporations that are public have to maximize profits in the interest of the shareholders.

Re: He blew the whistle on Amazon. He's still paying the price

#30

Post by rafaelmn »

avidiax wrote: post #15
laborcontract wrote: post #7

After reading both the article and his letter, I can't help but feel so, so sad. There's no glory for this guy. In the States, you'd be able to parlay something like this into a speaking/podcast tour, a book deal, and some consultancy gigs. This guy's life is ruined, his extended family's social credit sullied and, in addition to serving time, he's become the one of the abused workers he tried to protect. If I was th…

I would guess that Bezos has never read this letter. An underling of his would never present this letter to him unless Bezos has specifically asked to be presented such letters, and the fallout from this letter will never be sufficient to warrant his attention. It's unfortunate that American and European voters don't realize that allowing our companies to do business with places famous for worker's rights abuses and…

Isn't US using prisoners for (effectively) forced labor ?

US and EU are abusing (often illegal) immigrants and turning a blind eye to their terrible working conditions (eg. the slaughter house scandals in the EU that broke out during COVID).

Plenty of shit on our doorstep and people don't seem to be bothered that much stepping over it. Why would we be upset about a larger pile of shit a continent away ? We are so isolated from Chinese culture, I know very very little about China compared to NA and EU.

Also the west is happy to trade with way worse systems (by "our" standards) than China, middle east being the first to come to mind.

Not justifying China, just confused where these moral standard expectations are coming from.

Post reply on HN