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Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

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Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#21

Post by arp242 »

ChrisRR wrote: post #11

If you give people free web services they're going to use it for spam, porn, file sharing or crypto mining. If even their most basic tier only cost a few quid a year, it would probably stop spam usage by 99%

> If even their most basic tier only cost a few quid a year, it would probably stop spam usage by 99%

Not really; they will just sign up. Probably using a stolen card (I assume? I have no way to check.)

Source: have worked for email provider. Have you seen one of those films where one guy fends off hordes of zombies or other "bad guys"? It's like that. Anything that can send email will attract hordes of twats trying to spam the shit out of it. The main difference is that the spammers are more despicable subhuman twats.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#22

Post by stareatgoats »

Looking at the correspondence cited in the article I expect this is because the "AI"-powered anti-spam detection is hallucinating, and have decided every email from this provider is spam, based on a few (or many as the case may be) bad apples.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#23

Post by arp242 »

Ekaros wrote: post #20
fragmede wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no. Emails which include an unsubscribe link are legit enough to not do that. Actual spammers don't bother to include an unsubscribe link.

Are you sure that 100% of companies have not sold unsubscribed users information? As if there is even single counter-example you should just automatically mark it spam and then email providers should blacklist the domain.

That hugely draconian.

Are you 100% sure you never just signed up for a newsletter and forgot about it?

Are you 100% sure your email didn't end up there in some other way?

I used to send out some newsletters for my website; just a programming blog thingy. It was just a form with a simple program on the server to collect email addresses. Wrote everything myself; no external service or whatnot involved.

I got some pretty aggressive replies about people who insisted that I was spamming them. Did they forget (I didn't send out the newsletter very often)? Did someone typo their email and end up at the wrong person? Did some bot maybe fill in the form and pass the little captcha I added? Who knows. All I know is that there was a legit POST /subscribe request.

And as someone who also worked with spam prevention: it's this kind of stuff that also makes legit spam detection harder than it needs to be. The "Report spam" button is not a "fuck you" button, but unfortunately many people seem to use it as such.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#24

Post by ChrisRR »

arp242 wrote: post #21
ChrisRR wrote: post #11

If you give people free web services they're going to use it for spam, porn, file sharing or crypto mining. If even their most basic tier only cost a few quid a year, it would probably stop spam usage by 99%

> If even their most basic tier only cost a few quid a year, it would probably stop spam usage by 99% Not really; they will just sign up. Probably using a stolen card (I assume? I have no way to check.) Source: have worked for email provider. Have you seen one of those films where one guy fends off hordes of zombies or other "bad guys"? It's like that. Anything that can send email will attract hordes of twats trying…

Yes but I've also seen enough scam investigation videos where they just create email addresses and phone numbers non-stop using free services just because there's no penalty for doing so. If creating a new email cost them £3 a time then they'd probably just move onto someone else's free service.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#25

Post by [deleted] »

stareatgoats wrote: post #19
treyfitty wrote: post #7

Maybe Tutanota.com has a lot of outlook users reporting your marketing emails as spam. I generally do this if the unsubscribe route is too painful, or even if it takes too long to load.

> or even if it takes too long to load Which is not ideal, and might explain why Gmail routinely puts perfectly legit correspondence in my spam folder - again and again. I realize this might well be a problem stemming from email clients having but one option to flag emails: spam. Ideally one should have more options - as it is scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing (and slow loading messages it seems)…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#26

Post by pferde »

stareatgoats wrote: post #19
treyfitty wrote: post #7

Maybe Tutanota.com has a lot of outlook users reporting your marketing emails as spam. I generally do this if the unsubscribe route is too painful, or even if it takes too long to load.

> or even if it takes too long to load Which is not ideal, and might explain why Gmail routinely puts perfectly legit correspondence in my spam folder - again and again. I realize this might well be a problem stemming from email clients having but one option to flag emails: spam. Ideally one should have more options - as it is scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing (and slow loading messages it seems)…

Do you think regular users would know, or even care about which category to use? As far as they're concerned, it's "this message bad!", period.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#27

Post by gpderetta »

stareatgoats wrote: post #19
treyfitty wrote: post #7

Maybe Tutanota.com has a lot of outlook users reporting your marketing emails as spam. I generally do this if the unsubscribe route is too painful, or even if it takes too long to load.

> or even if it takes too long to load Which is not ideal, and might explain why Gmail routinely puts perfectly legit correspondence in my spam folder - again and again. I realize this might well be a problem stemming from email clients having but one option to flag emails: spam. Ideally one should have more options - as it is scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing (and slow loading messages it seems)…

> scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing

it is all spam; none of us want to see any of it, why do we need more fine grained control?

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#28

Post by arp242 »

snitch182 wrote: post #3

My private email server gets completly blocked on regular bases. They are blocking the whole ip-range of my provider. You get no response from them whatsoever. You have to fill out a form und wait a couple of days. You can however sign up for a 200$ whitelist... from a different company owned by guess who.

> They are blocking the whole ip-range of my provider.

That's not necessarily unreasonable, depending on which provider that is.

Sites like Wikipedia also block entire ranges to prevent spam. Unfortunately sometimes people do get caught up in that (as I did last year).

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#29

Post by Ekaros »

arp242 wrote: post #23
Ekaros wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that 100% of companies have not sold unsubscribed users information? As if there is even single counter-example you should just automatically mark it spam and then email providers should blacklist the domain.

That hugely draconian. Are you 100% sure you never just signed up for a newsletter and forgot about it? Are you 100% sure your email didn't end up there in some other way? I used to send out some newsletters for my website; just a programming blog thingy. It was just a form with a simple program on the server to collect email addresses. Wrote everything myself; no external service or whatnot involved. I got some pret…

With email spam it has been long proven that best way to act is to treat all actors as malicious. As there is enough malicious actors around.

And it took me a minute to find phishing mail with unsubscribe link. Which entirely proves my original point. Sure those sending phishing mails won't stop the mails I probably ordered somewhere?

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#30

Post by supermatt »

snitch182 wrote: post #3

My private email server gets completly blocked on regular bases. They are blocking the whole ip-range of my provider. You get no response from them whatsoever. You have to fill out a form und wait a couple of days. You can however sign up for a 200$ whitelist... from a different company owned by guess who.

What whitelist are you referring to?
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