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The 501 Developer Manifesto

501manifesto.org

21–30 of 120 posts

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#21
“Playing fußball in the pub with our friends over playing fußball in the office with our team leader”

Talk about a false dichotomy. I evade this problem by being friends with the people I work with.

Overall, I think there are some good distinctions made here. And there is a good point to the thing: “To us it is just a job, but we still do it well.” I almost feel like the page should lead with that. That this isn't an indication that this approach is better than the other approach, simply that it's… Different.

Maybe I don't have a family nearby right now. Maybe I am at a point in my life where I can have free snacks and free time, where I can have sustainable pace AND muscle-man heroics AND still enjoy life outside of work. But that's beside the point of the page. The point here is to understand that not everyone has that perspective, and that it's important to respect those that leave their work at the office and dedicate more time to all the other things than you do (if you're one not one of the “501 developers”).

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#22
Threatening with "there's a risk that we'll piss all over your fireworks" falsifies "Not being a dick over being a rockstar".

I really liked the manifesto items, but after that the whole thing gets a passive aggressive tone. That is unfortunate.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#23
That sarcastic tone is so weird that it's clear there's more to this than working hours. I think it's about dead corporate culture, bad managers, and dysfunctional teams where people don't agree.

The more interesting part is the second half, in the smaller print where the author addresses his teammates. He uses words like "respect", but what he's saying feels contemptuous and passive-aggressive. That's the real tell here. Well, that and the suggestion that he doesn't believe in what he's working on. No wonder he feels like checking out every day.

Does it matter what time someone leaves? Only if people feel it does. What matters is that a team be aligned. If there's disharmony, work it out. If you can't work it out, change the team. Writing a "manifesto" is not working it out (though it might start a real conversation).

Personally, I want teammates who are passionate about doing great work. Come and go whenever works for you. But passion doesn't get turned off like a light switch at the same time every day.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#24

Funny thing is that I prefer to go home @ 5 as well... but when I do get home I often read books about programming, catch up on articles and papers, or work on some amusing side-project. Often I'll learn some maths, experiment with some new approaches to solving problems, or watch screen casts to learn how other people approach the craft. I don't do it because I'm some corporate shill. I just really love programming.…

You would get payed if you stayed longer? Here (Portugal) it's common practice for every kind of dev to work overtime with no extra pay, it's seen as a trait of the job and it's not just when there's a huge deadline, because there always is.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#27

Some of these things relate to employers, and some of them relate to programming and craft. I'm all for keeping a sustainable pace on your project, and not letting your employer's priorities continually override yours. But some of this sounds too much like a defense of those whose dedication to learning stops at the office door. I respect those people for the time they spend with their families and loved ones, and wi…

> But some of this sounds too much like a defense of those whose dedication to learning stops at the office door. I don't think it's fair to characterize it that way, there are other things to learn about outside of programming. I spend a lot of time learning about biology, sociology, economics, philosophy, etc. I spend time learning more about friends and partners. I spend time learning about myself. Yours is exactl…

Yours is exactly the mentality that the article is addressing, the one that does not see value in or respect any activity not directly related to coding.

I certainly don't see that in what bguthrie wrote.

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#28

During our latest "crunch project", we worked pretty crazy hours to ship on time. One guy in the team works 6 hour days, and continued doing so all the way, with a few exceptions. As the rest of us turned to Zombies he remained calm, focused and sharp. Without him, we wouldn't have shipped as well as we did.

Did this cause friction on your team? Or did everyone feel good about the arrangement?

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#29

“Playing fußball in the pub with our friends over playing fußball in the office with our team leader” Talk about a false dichotomy. I evade this problem by being friends with the people I work with. Overall, I think there are some good distinctions made here. And there is a good point to the thing: “To us it is just a job, but we still do it well.” I almost feel like the page should lead with that. That this isn't an…

Just because you've made your coworkers part of your extended social life doesn't mean there's no dichotomy between "socializing at work" and "socializing with friends".

Re: The 501 Developer Manifesto

#30

Funny thing is that I prefer to go home @ 5 as well... but when I do get home I often read books about programming, catch up on articles and papers, or work on some amusing side-project. Often I'll learn some maths, experiment with some new approaches to solving problems, or watch screen casts to learn how other people approach the craft. I don't do it because I'm some corporate shill. I just really love programming.…

I think the learning programming thing falls under "personal creative projects", and I am with you 100%.
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