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Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#21

Post by robocat »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #13
robocat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But: EVs are already greener than cars running on gasoline even with our current electricity grid https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-opinion-renewables-w...

and ~40% of electricity at this point is renewable

That is irrelevant and a pernicious myth when buying an EV - that renewable power is already mostly all used.

When adding load you need to consider where the extra power is generated from for your location. Also see sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38536601 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317119 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26255833

Sorry: I'm probably answering a point that you are not making.

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#22

Post by iwontberude »

vlovich123 wrote: post #16
iwontberude wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget there is infrastructure and losses due to heat between the power plant and the car charging port.

I believe that’s accounted for in these numbers, no? Wheel to wheel efficiency I believe is all losses between source and moving the car, although it’s unclear if WTW includes transportation costs for fuels (id imagine yes based on the name but would require further reading)

I did some more digging and the T & D is definitely captured in WTW. Thanks for saying it.

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#23

Post by thebruce87m »

robocat wrote: post #21
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and ~40% of electricity at this point is renewable

That is irrelevant and a pernicious myth when buying an EV - that renewable power is already mostly all used. When adding load you need to consider where the extra power is generated from for your location. Also see sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38536601 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317119 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26255833 Sorry: I'm probably answering a point that…

Many people in my country charge at night. We get a cheaper rate - 7.5p/kWh vs 30p as the grid has excess capacity at that point.

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#24

Post by vlovich123 »

thebruce87m wrote: post #23
robocat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is irrelevant and a pernicious myth when buying an EV - that renewable power is already mostly all used. When adding load you need to consider where the extra power is generated from for your location. Also see sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38536601 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27317119 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26255833 Sorry: I'm probably answering a point that…

Many people in my country charge at night. We get a cheaper rate - 7.5p/kWh vs 30p as the grid has excess capacity at that point.

Hate to break it to you, but that's definitely not getting charged off solar then and possibly not wind either (depends on how the grid is being maintained).

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#25

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

vlovich123 wrote: post #24
thebruce87m wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people in my country charge at night. We get a cheaper rate - 7.5p/kWh vs 30p as the grid has excess capacity at that point.

Hate to break it to you, but that's definitely not getting charged off solar then and possibly not wind either (depends on how the grid is being maintained).

It is probably largely nuclear. Nuclear plants pretty much never get turned off since they're roughly free to run, and there's much less power used at night.

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#26

Post by thebruce87m »

vlovich123 wrote: post #24
thebruce87m wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people in my country charge at night. We get a cheaper rate - 7.5p/kWh vs 30p as the grid has excess capacity at that point.

Hate to break it to you, but that's definitely not getting charged off solar then and possibly not wind either (depends on how the grid is being maintained).

It’s mostly wind: https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#27

Post by robocat »

thebruce87m wrote: post #26
vlovich123 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to break it to you, but that's definitely not getting charged off solar then and possibly not wind either (depends on how the grid is being maintained).

It’s mostly wind: https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

Cool.

It is misleading picking Scotland - power is fungible across borders. Otherwise I could claim I was green because my house is next to a hydroelectric dam and I could claim the guys house next to the coal fired plant is bad.

the graphs shows interconnects but I couldn't see any power exports to Europe. I presume if there is extra wind generation at 5AM it gets exported to countries that are waking up.

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#28

Post by thebruce87m »

robocat wrote: post #27
thebruce87m wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mostly wind: https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

Cool. It is misleading picking Scotland - power is fungible across borders. Otherwise I could claim I was green because my house is next to a hydroelectric dam and I could claim the guys house next to the coal fired plant is bad. the graphs shows interconnects but I couldn't see any power exports to Europe. I presume if there is extra wind generation at 5AM it gets exported to countries that are waking up.

I live in Scotland, where should I pick?

Re: Toyota plans $4.7B sale of Denso stake as EV pivot looms

#29

Post by robocat »

thebruce87m wrote: post #28
robocat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. It is misleading picking Scotland - power is fungible across borders. Otherwise I could claim I was green because my house is next to a hydroelectric dam and I could claim the guys house next to the coal fired plant is bad. the graphs shows interconnects but I couldn't see any power exports to Europe. I presume if there is extra wind generation at 5AM it gets exported to countries that are waking up.

I live in Scotland, where should I pick?

The relevant figures are for the UK as a whole. If you add load then that marginal extra power comes from the UK network. The interconnects with Europe make it more difficult to know the marginal difference in CO2 production.

I live in the South Island of New Zealand which has huge hydropower - power is sent to the North Island via the undersea DC link: https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-operator/live-system-and... So if I add load then what matters is where the marginal extra power demanded is generated from across the whole network (even if that is in the North Island).

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