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Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

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Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#21

Post by ufmace »

The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in Production.

But then all of this has been known for decades. There are plenty of well-known techniques for how to do all that. If they haven't actually done it by now, it's a management problem, and no AI tech is going to fix that.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#23

Post by pixl97 »

elteto wrote: post #9

These systems have not been running untouched for 60 years. Regulatory environments change almost constantly and the code has to be updated accordingly. I don’t personally know anyone writing COBOL but I’m certain there’s plenty of people doing it. And to change the code you have to know it. So there’s really no 60 year old code that no one knows anymore. Also, at this point, if you are running on a dead platform and…

I've seen some currently used COBOL that had it's like change date in the early 80s in the finance industry, so there some rather ancient programs out there. Of course this also means that these files have met the needs of the industry that long and bug free so why go messing with things that move 100s of millions/billions of dollars per day.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#24

Post by ProjectArcturis »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #17
dun44 wrote: post #6

Regarding IBM's use of technology widely known for hallucinating to translate sensitive source code: it sounds weird you think the primary objective here is to deliver something that properly translates from one language to another. But it is not - the primary objective is to get money from customers and investors. Delivering something that works is secondary, and honestly, optional. Many things in IT start making a…

Especially for IBM! See IBM Watson for details.

I guess translating COBOL is somewhat less embarrassing than Watson being used to predict fantasy football scores.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#25

Post by matthewdgreen »

ufmace wrote: post #21

The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in P…

How hard is it to actually learn COBOL? It seems like a fairly simple language to pick up, but maybe the idiomatic COBOL used in these legacy systems is particularly nasty for some reason.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#26

Post by pixl97 »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #14
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be curious to know how we’re defining “overpaying” here. These companies have effectively accrued 50+ years of technical debt (they could have migrated off COBOL decades ago). Meanwhile, based on my limited experience with these industries, I’d be surprised if they even offer market rates to new hires.

Let me up the ante. Why do we believe COBOL is yech-debt?

Hell, after seeing both kind of applications (java vs cobol) by these bank/financial companies I am of the opposite mind.

Those COBOL applications will keep working until the sun burns up or inflation makes the numbers so long they no longer fit in bounds.

The java applications they write should fill you with terror.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#27

Post by the_only_law »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #25
ufmace wrote: post #21

The article title is clickbaity, but the actual point is the proposal of using LLMs to translate large amounts of legacy COBOL systems to more modern languages like Java. Doesn't seem terribly useful to me. I expect you could get a 90% solution faster, but the whole challenge with these projects is how to get that last bit of correctness, and how to be confident enough in the correctness of it to actually use it in P…

How hard is it to actually learn COBOL? It seems like a fairly simple language to pick up, but maybe the idiomatic COBOL used in these legacy systems is particularly nasty for some reason.

Learning COBOL is the easy part. My understanding is the hard part is becoming familiar with insanely expensive, proprietary mainframe platform that’s you’ll find in most COBOL work. I know IBM has some sort of self training material, but I’m not sure if it’s enough to go from zero to qualified. Most work I see in the area seems to want established domain experts, not hackers who learn just enough to be dangerous.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#28

Post by [deleted] »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #10

The flawed "economic analysis" in this article is so commonly brought out, but at this point we should just call it what it is: lying. There is no "shortage of COBOL programmers." Businesses are simply choosing what they will pay, and the market is responding appropriately. And this is also not just a case of naively shouting "duh, just pay them more" for a market that can't bear the increase in costs (i.e. some indu…

[deleted]

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#29

Post by pixl97 »

kjs3 wrote: post #15
jalk wrote: post #5

There seems to be plenty of cobol transpilers - anybody know why they can’t use those. Immediate thought was it’s just beating on the dead Watson horse.

If they worked as effectively as they were touted, they'd have cleared out the cobol.

No really, in fact I'd say the opposite.

The issue with COBOL is any old idiot can't write it. If someone is touching the COBOL they are going in and making minor changes/expansions to an application that is older than the average HN user and those changes and expectations are well defined.

With Java and/or language of the day your cheapest run of the mill contractor given exceptionally poor instructions will crank out X LOC per day where X is the required output for them to keep their job. Maintaining that code will be some other bastards problem.

Re: Watsonx: IBM's code assistant for turning COBOL into Java

#30

Post by buro9 »

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/cobol-programmer-salary...

If it's so valuable to the industry that they have good people who know it, that should surely be reflected in the salary / comp for roles... And if that were high, people would learn it, but it's not high, it's arguably worse than just learning a little JavaScript

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