Codecademy - how not to do a redesign • Hacker News Board

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#21

Post by calydon » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:17 AM UTC

zds wrote: post #9

I'm the cofounder of Codecademy. Unfortunately, there aren't comments allowed on the author's blog so I'll comment here (I'm emailing him as well so hopefully my comment gets posted to his blog). We've received a lot of feedback on our initial courses page redesign since a soft launch on Saturday. We're working on making it easier for our users to find what's important to them and to discover interesting courses amon…

It looks like the downvote police are out in full force - but I'm not backing down. The redesign is strong. The only concern I have is how the current layout will grow with the addition of more courses.

Michal - why not permit some comments on your blog so we can bring the discussion to you? You made some strong statements that deserve a rebuttal.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#22

Post by zds » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:19 AM UTC

calydon wrote: post #18

Taking a stand on something publicly takes courage so I don't want to be too dismissive, but respectfully, Michal, I disagree. I'm taking the Javascript courses and I barely noticed the page had been redesigned. (That's good design!) I had no trouble finding and walking right into what I wanted. The layout is clear, logical and looks good. The 'start here' tag is probably superfluous because it isn't needed. It's obv…

Thanks for your comments, calydon. I'm the cofounder of Codecademy - would love to hear your feedback via email (and on HN).

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#23

Post by valhallarecords » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:19 AM UTC

I don't care much for alignment. I think it's nit picking for the most part.

The simple list format you had before was much easier to understand than the new design.

The new design does look prettier at first glance though, but it just becomes frustrating once I try to actually use it. It's very unclear which course I should take first. I get no sense of prerequisites. Different types of activities (ie. projects vs lessons) are mixed together.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#24

Post by zds » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:21 AM UTC

valhallarecords wrote: post #23

I don't care much for alignment. I think it's nit picking for the most part. The simple list format you had before was much easier to understand than the new design. The new design does look prettier at first glance though, but it just becomes frustrating once I try to actually use it. It's very unclear which course I should take first. I get no sense of prerequisites. Different types of activities (ie. projects vs l…

Thanks, valhallarecords. We're working on implementing a mix of the two designs. As it seems you've noticed, we've worked on pulling together "tracks" which are the lists from the former design along with new course listings. We're iterating based on a lot of this feedback.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#25

Post by zdgman » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:21 AM UTC

Great to see zds in here actively addressing comments. I was really surprised to find the site redesigned after not having picked it up in about a week (been to busy to walk through the rest of my missing tutorials).

I have to agree with the sentiment currently, the redesign throws way too much in your face all at once and I can only imagine for a beginner that you would easily be pushed away from the site if it was your first time trying to get into it.

For me, I would like to be asked up front which path I would like to take: Are you looking at applications or are you looking at web apps? After that only show me the lessons that relate to that path and pull back the rest of the site design to be as minimalist as possible.

What would also be great is if I didn't have to bring up another tab just to look at the QA section when I get stuck trying to implement a solution.

Finally, would love if the code panels were actually a bit bigger so that when you have a multi-line program you could view all of it at once. I don't know what is the most used resolution when viewing the site but I imagine you do have room to make the console bigger regardless.

Love the product and I am definitely going to keep using it regardless of the design.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#26

Post by zds » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:21 AM UTC

calydon wrote: post #21

zds wrote: post #9

I'm the cofounder of Codecademy. Unfortunately, there aren't comments allowed on the author's blog so I'll comment here (I'm emailing him as well so hopefully my comment gets posted to his blog). We've received a lot of feedback on our initial courses page redesign since a soft launch on Saturday. We're working on making it easier for our users to find what's important to them and to discover interesting courses amon…

It looks like the downvote police are out in full force - but I'm not backing down. The redesign is strong. The only concern I have is how the current layout will grow with the addition of more courses. Michal - why not permit some comments on your blog so we can bring the discussion to you? You made some strong statements that deserve a rebuttal.

The layout was actually designed to facilitate the addition of more courses - we'll iterate based on feedback but also on our longer-term vision. Thanks again, calydon.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#27

Post by zds » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:23 AM UTC

zdgman wrote: post #25

Great to see zds in here actively addressing comments. I was really surprised to find the site redesigned after not having picked it up in about a week (been to busy to walk through the rest of my missing tutorials). I have to agree with the sentiment currently, the redesign throws way too much in your face all at once and I can only imagine for a beginner that you would easily be pushed away from the site if it was…

Thanks, zdgman. Really appreciate the in-depth feedback here - it gives us a lot to go on for the future.

We're going to simplify things for beginners and existing users. Many users have chosen their path (Code Year, for instance) so they're seeing different screens than the majority of HN users (depending on their use case). We'll start to show people relevant courses to them over time too.

We're actually in the middle of changing some of the editor features to do what you mention and also to fix QA. Thanks again for your feedback. I'm here to answer questions (and you can reach us via email).

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#28

Post by jsavimbi » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:24 AM UTC

calydon wrote: post #19

jsavimbi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they actually do not. The visual design is poor enough, not to mention the actual code implementation but the interface itself is even more disjointed and incoherent, using a varied mix of metaphorical elements on the view that have no implied structure, hierarchy or continuity. It's as if each part of the view was designed in isolation without regard for the others. That turkey wasn't ready to come out of the ov…

Jsavimbi - without specific examples of what you're talking about, I call trolling.

http://michalbures.com/blog/codecademy-how-not-to-do-a-redes...

Michal did a sufficient job of providing examples right there, although I'd caution that very ambitious young man, programmer and designer not to use such an aggressive approach while still an SFSU student, photographer and soon to be entrepreneur (wtf does that mean?).

I call not trolling simply because I agree with the premise that the redesign is half-baked.

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#29

Post by zdgman » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:27 AM UTC

zds wrote: post #27

zdgman wrote: post #25

Great to see zds in here actively addressing comments. I was really surprised to find the site redesigned after not having picked it up in about a week (been to busy to walk through the rest of my missing tutorials). I have to agree with the sentiment currently, the redesign throws way too much in your face all at once and I can only imagine for a beginner that you would easily be pushed away from the site if it was…

Thanks, zdgman. Really appreciate the in-depth feedback here - it gives us a lot to go on for the future. We're going to simplify things for beginners and existing users. Many users have chosen their path (Code Year, for instance) so they're seeing different screens than the majority of HN users (depending on their use case). We'll start to show people relevant courses to them over time too. We're actually in the mid…

Glad to hear it zds. Would be nice if you guys published a blog post in terms of where your road map was going.

I know you all are probably buried under it in terms of work but even giving people a little bit of detail helps?

Seems like you need a community manager to get the word out / gauge the performance for you guys:)

Re: Codecademy - how not to do a redesign

#30

Post by jcampbell1 » Tue, Apr 17, 2012, 4:27 AM UTC

zds wrote: post #9

I'm the cofounder of Codecademy. Unfortunately, there aren't comments allowed on the author's blog so I'll comment here (I'm emailing him as well so hopefully my comment gets posted to his blog). We've received a lot of feedback on our initial courses page redesign since a soft launch on Saturday. We're working on making it easier for our users to find what's important to them and to discover interesting courses amon…

Since you asked: When using the product, I see:

"That's correct! Next Exercise" often.

"Next Exercise" should probably look more like a button. It is not obvious that it is clickable, especially to the 6% of males who are color blind.