21–30 of 180 posts
Does Roc have any features that a Haskell programmer could consider improvements?
First of all — way faster machine code. Many other things are features or bugs depending of your preferences. For me, for example, eager evaluation is a big improvement, but YMMV.
Neat, looks like the website got an overhaul. I like Roc's approach of detecting errors statically but still trying to let you run the code. If a snippet is work in progress and has an unused variable, Go or Zig will refuse to compile it. Yes, an unused variable indicates a problem, which is why it's not going to pass any sensible CI setup and make its way into production, but that doesn't mean I should be disallowed…
What I find surprising is how few programmers I talk to are aware of this, let alone use it. I find it a significant productivity boost.
Extrapolating away from debuggers: Everything should be warning, nothing should be an error. Then adopt a policy that you don't check in warnings. I find it utterly insane that 'unused variable' is treated as an _error_ (in the sense that it prevents compilation). It.. just isn't.
I hear _lots_ of noise in the line of 'well but my dev team will just ignore that rule', but that's a "doctor it hurts when I press here" issue. You don't solve that by just being more beliggerent, you fix that by having a chat with the team.
I wonder what 'friendly' means in the context of 'a programming language', but if its: "Assuming you are not a complete idiot", that's a plus, I guess.
I don't know, after having used Elm and seeing the community accused of "hostile attacks" by one of the main contributors (who is the creator of Roc now) [0], I don't feel that it's worth my time to put into learning it, even if it is objectively good; I simply cannot know what the creators will do (or refuse to do, in the case of Elm) in the future, especially in a BDFL governance paradigm. This was in fact why I st…
> EDIT 5 years later: You can see in the edit history of this comment what I originally wrote here; I was upset and said unkind things that I regret, and which nobody deserved to hear. I apologized at the time and I still feel I should apologize again, unequivocally. I was in the wrong here.
Big fan of Richard Feldman's talks and Roc is one of my most anticipated upcoming language besides Gleam. Great to see that there's now a nice Roc website. Looking forward to how the language evolves!
I don't know, after having used Elm and seeing the community accused of "hostile attacks" by one of the main contributors (who is the creator of Roc now) [0], I don't feel that it's worth my time to put into learning it, even if it is objectively good; I simply cannot know what the creators will do (or refuse to do, in the case of Elm) in the future, especially in a BDFL governance paradigm. This was in fact why I st…
I don't know, after having used Elm and seeing the community accused of "hostile attacks" by one of the main contributors (who is the creator of Roc now) [0], I don't feel that it's worth my time to put into learning it, even if it is objectively good; I simply cannot know what the creators will do (or refuse to do, in the case of Elm) in the future, especially in a BDFL governance paradigm. This was in fact why I st…
I believe people should be given second chances. There’s a good chance that the Elm debacle has taught most people involved a thing or two.
Elm also seemed very promising in the beginning, and honestly I don't even think that comment is so abhorrent on its own. I think Elm died the death of a thousand cuts. If it had only been one errant comment somewhere, it would've been mostly forgotten about by now. Instead, it's Elm that's mostly forgotten about.
So I say best of luck, but also... No thanks for now.
edit: Just so it's completely clear, I am actually implying that "maintainers being dicks" was actually not the problem with Elm. I think people just got especially infuriated by it because they were sick of trying to deal with Elm's breaking changes, of which this represented one. I remember going through and learning Elm and like literally months later everything was completely different and I no longer knew how to make a basic hello world application (around 0.16 or 0.17 maybe? Can't recall. I just remember that effects had changed a fair bit.) I know that to some degree this is the nature of a 0.x product, but at some point it's like "OK... then who is supposed to even use this?" Among other issues of course.
I don't know, after having used Elm and seeing the community accused of "hostile attacks" by one of the main contributors (who is the creator of Roc now) [0], I don't feel that it's worth my time to put into learning it, even if it is objectively good; I simply cannot know what the creators will do (or refuse to do, in the case of Elm) in the future, especially in a BDFL governance paradigm. This was in fact why I st…
I don't know, after having used Elm and seeing the community accused of "hostile attacks" by one of the main contributors (who is the creator of Roc now) [0], I don't feel that it's worth my time to put into learning it, even if it is objectively good; I simply cannot know what the creators will do (or refuse to do, in the case of Elm) in the future, especially in a BDFL governance paradigm. This was in fact why I st…
I don't see what was so harsh? I checked the edit history, I saw the original comments and subsequent minor tweaks. His response was rather testy and stubborn (as is the case with the Elm team generally, it seems), but not as much of a dick comment as I have seen elsewhere in GitHub issues.
> Threatening a person with exclusion from a community for attempting to patch the source code is quite antithetical to the spirit of Open Source, as far as I can see.
Elm really broke my heart, I believed it will go places it never went. Roc honestly, I am OK to play around with it and build whatever makes me happy.
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