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Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

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21–30 of 167 posts

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#21
Off topic: this is my first time hearing of rinse aids. It really feels odd (to me) that such a thing would exist. I thought we all just used water and a napkin.

I also have no experience with dishwashers, so how different is dishwater detergent from regular dishwashing soap?

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#22
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Yes but isn't this even worse? I can control what I use at home. I can't when I eat or drink out.

So I get to pick between PFAS soaked throwaway single use cardboard cups or epithelial barrier damaging glass/ceramic ware.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#23
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

I had over 10 years of eczeme/sensitivity between my fingers after operating a professional dishwasher for under a year.

I always thought the reason was the handling of the hot, sprayed tableware. It set on pretty quickly too : couple of months.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#24
post #17
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

> They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers. this should be the top comment

Yes, but let me add my personal but - bottles for kids often have complex non leaking valves where detergent accumulates - as in you can see pieces of undissolved tablet every single time inside it. If missed it’ll affect little kids, every day, so be aware.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#25
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Yes but isn't this even worse? I can control what I use at home. I can't when I eat or drink out. So I get to pick between PFAS soaked throwaway single use cardboard cups or epithelial barrier damaging glass/ceramic ware.

There's a lesson in that first few sentences. Of course eating out is risky as it's a black box where you get food for putting money in it. You're not guaranteed quality or safety in the more subtle sense

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#26
post #13

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

I had over 10 years of eczeme/sensitivity between my fingers after operating a professional dishwasher for under a year. I always thought the reason was the handling of the hot, sprayed tableware. It set on pretty quickly too : couple of months.

It probably is. There's no indication that these results mean anything about the effects on skin.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#28
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the advantages over plain vinegar? Been using that my whole life without any concern beyond wanting to avoid expensive rinse aids.

Vinegar can be a stronger acid than citric acid and has the potential to damage rubber sealings. That's why many manufacturers specifically advise against it.

Interesting. I’ve used 5% for as long as I can remember, seems to be recommended for that reason. Just never bothered to look into it before as my units haven’t shown any damage. Thanks!

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#29

Off topic: this is my first time hearing of rinse aids. It really feels odd (to me) that such a thing would exist. I thought we all just used water and a napkin. I also have no experience with dishwashers, so how different is dishwater detergent from regular dishwashing soap?

I thought the study meant the stuff used at the end after washing. Here in Canada bars and restaurants after washing dishes must rinse dishes in a disinfectant bath and let the dishes air dry. The rinse aid sounds like something in the soap itself that helps the soap not stick to the final clean dishes.

It also seems to be the water used about 4 liters of water in commercial dishwashers vs 12 liters for household types. Commercial use less water, more powerful detergent, no water rinse.

Re: Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

#30
I really want safety tests for consumer products to not be black/white.

Instead, more and more tests should be necessary for the more people you want to sell your product to, and the more people use it.

Some toy you sell 1000 of to people at a craft fayre should require a simple declaration that you didn't knowingly use leaded paint, while something you sell 10 billion of (eg dishwasher tablets) should require a whole independent team of scientists to do every study they can think of the establish risk/benefit.

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