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What If Google Wasn't the Default?

matt-rickard.com

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Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#21

Post by rightbyte »

SllX wrote: post #5
mrweasel wrote: post #2

The fascination with Apple developing their own search is a little weird. That is not direction we'd want to go in. It seems that we'd be better of if the companies providing search was different from the device maker or operating systems and browser developers.

Agreed. Apple has the resources to go into a lot of businesses they don’t necessarily want to be in and they seem happy enough with the Google arrangement. They like to own and control the technologies core to their products, but even they have to draw a line otherwise they’d be building and running their own fabs. Plus Microsoft also has a lot of money and talent and have been in the search business a very long time…

> Bing still sucks

If I were to form a search habit today I don't think I would grade Bing lower than Google.

Google has gotten way worse and Bing way better.

Bing seems to respect the user's querries more too.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#22

Post by raincole »

scary-size wrote: post #19

> Increased competition in mobile browsers. Google is going to capture most of Safari's market share with Chrome. Users know Chrome, they use it on desktop, it's convenient to use it on mobile too. > Refocus on Android. With the iPhone market being what it is in the US, I don't see Google letting that just go. > Apple’s Search Engine Honestly, I think they just might do that. They have been moving the "service" direc…

> Users know Chrome, they use it on desktop, it's convenient to use it on mobile too

New generation uses mobile before they even know desktop exists. Mobile first is real.

And by new generation I don't mean toddlers. I mean college freshmen.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#23

Post by linza »

John7149 wrote: post #12
uneekname wrote: post #9

Google is quite sticky indeed. Having tried a few alternatives, I keep coming back to it because it helps me get things done the fastest. It would be relatively easy for Apple to switch their default search engine, but quite difficult to switch it to something better. That said I hope they do, and I hope to see more and better search engine competitors in the future.

Kagi and You.com are way better than Google. Searches are usually within 1 page result unlike Google these days peppered with so many ads that the thing I look for usually at page 10-20 range. The only downside is they are paid service. Google stickyness is because it is free using us as product just like Meta. If you forho it being free, Kagi and You.com are great alternative. DDG is also free but due to way it mone…

I tried kagi with the free trial offer and liked it a lot. However, i was not converted to a paying customer.

I don't actually really know why. There is nothing technically that makes me hesitate. When my trial was over, and I stared at the form for my credit card I kinda went "nah I'm good. I'll go back to google for now, i can switch when i really need to". I never really needed to.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#24

Post by calciphus »

mrweasel wrote: post #15
cmehdy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Apple make billions selling ads? https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/15/apple-ad-business...

Somehow yes,... I'm still very interested in how that works. I doubt it's wrong, but I only see ads in the app store, surely that cannot be worth that much, if so: Apple is overcharging big time on those ads.

Also the 36% they get from Google showing ads on search.

That revenue is significant and would have to be replaced.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#25

Post by tomjen3 »

SllX wrote: post #5
mrweasel wrote: post #2

The fascination with Apple developing their own search is a little weird. That is not direction we'd want to go in. It seems that we'd be better of if the companies providing search was different from the device maker or operating systems and browser developers.

Agreed. Apple has the resources to go into a lot of businesses they don’t necessarily want to be in and they seem happy enough with the Google arrangement. They like to own and control the technologies core to their products, but even they have to draw a line otherwise they’d be building and running their own fabs. Plus Microsoft also has a lot of money and talent and have been in the search business a very long time…

Bing chat is amazing and much better than plain Google for information search.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#26

Post by tuyiown »

linza wrote: post #23
John7149 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi and You.com are way better than Google. Searches are usually within 1 page result unlike Google these days peppered with so many ads that the thing I look for usually at page 10-20 range. The only downside is they are paid service. Google stickyness is because it is free using us as product just like Meta. If you forho it being free, Kagi and You.com are great alternative. DDG is also free but due to way it mone…

I tried kagi with the free trial offer and liked it a lot. However, i was not converted to a paying customer. I don't actually really know why. There is nothing technically that makes me hesitate. When my trial was over, and I stared at the form for my credit card I kinda went "nah I'm good. I'll go back to google for now, i can switch when i really need to". I never really needed to.

I converted to paying on kagi the promise that the first tier was enough for most users. It was not, and I didn't considered I would be a heavy user before hand. 2nd tier price is not acceptable to me since the UI/UX is not polished enough (search input reset is not something that should slip in production ever). I also had to revert to google for shopping results, kagi is suppose to have some, but not for me apparently.

I might try again is the raise the search count on first tier or provide services I care for on the second tier.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#27

Post by mrweasel »

shiroiuma wrote: post #20
mrweasel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bing still sucks Bing is actually really really good these days, but was it worth the investment? I can understand that Microsoft want some of that R&D money back, but I really wish they would have kept focus on Windows and taken the high road and made it better, more secure, more private and then thrown Bing in Googles face without the ads and tracking, just to prove that "the big boys" make money on selling actua…

> I really wish they would have kept focus on Windows and taken the high road and made it better, more secure, more private Why would they do this? It makes zero sense. There would be zero (or really negative) ROI for doing as you suggest here. They already have a near-monopoly on desktop OSes, and these improvements you want aren't going to change that or improve the profits they get from the Windows business. It wo…

You are 100% correct, I'm just sad that this is the state of modern business practices and mindless focus on profit above all.

It would never fly, but I'd much rather see better and safer product than another 20% on Microsofts bottom line. Business people would call me a commie.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#28

Post by OrderlyTiamat »

mrweasel wrote: post #16
SllX wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Apple has the resources to go into a lot of businesses they don’t necessarily want to be in and they seem happy enough with the Google arrangement. They like to own and control the technologies core to their products, but even they have to draw a line otherwise they’d be building and running their own fabs. Plus Microsoft also has a lot of money and talent and have been in the search business a very long time…

> Bing still sucks Bing is actually really really good these days, but was it worth the investment? I can understand that Microsoft want some of that R&D money back, but I really wish they would have kept focus on Windows and taken the high road and made it better, more secure, more private and then thrown Bing in Googles face without the ads and tracking, just to prove that "the big boys" make money on selling actua…

I just rediscovered the difference between the two this morning.

I was trying to find some half-remembered meme images to share with a friend, and I couldn't find it in ddg. appending "!g" and... first 10 results are correct. It's remarkable how good google is when searching for things that are popular, and how far it's fallen for non-popular specific technical queries.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#29

Post by jampekka »

mrweasel wrote: post #13
jampekka wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the obvious reason that search is perhaps the best service to sell ads for? And Apple has the benefit that the cult would be extatic to be walled off even tighter.

I don't think Apple search would provide any tangible benefit for Apple users, nor do I hear any regular iPhone users express any desire to have Apple search, they just use the default. It might benefit Apple though, but why spend money on developing search when you can just use Google and get 36% of the revenue. The whole wanting a 100% Apple ecosystem isn't something I think many a clamoring, except perhaps the few…

Apple of course does what benefits Apple, regardless of whether it benefits the user. 100% is 64 percentage points more than 36%. And due to the lock-in Apple could do away with significantly worse search than Google.

I agree that the heavy and intentional un-interoperability of Apple products is not a benefit for the users (although some hardcore claim it is). E.g. Apple clearly benefits from preventing sideloading (to force the App store rake) or alternative browser engines, but hard to see this having at least net benefit for the user.

Re: What If Google Wasn't the Default?

#30

Post by xigoi »

John7149 wrote: post #12
uneekname wrote: post #9

Google is quite sticky indeed. Having tried a few alternatives, I keep coming back to it because it helps me get things done the fastest. It would be relatively easy for Apple to switch their default search engine, but quite difficult to switch it to something better. That said I hope they do, and I hope to see more and better search engine competitors in the future.

Kagi and You.com are way better than Google. Searches are usually within 1 page result unlike Google these days peppered with so many ads that the thing I look for usually at page 10-20 range. The only downside is they are paid service. Google stickyness is because it is free using us as product just like Meta. If you forho it being free, Kagi and You.com are great alternative. DDG is also free but due to way it mone…

You.com seems to be an AI assistant, not a search engine?
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