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GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

deepmind.google

21–30 of 310 posts

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#21

weather prediction seems to me like a terrific use of machine learning aka statistics. The challenge I suppose is in the data. To get perfect predictions you'd need to have a mapping of what conditions were like 6 hours, 12 hours, etc before, and what the various outcomes were, which butterflies flapped their wings and where (this last one is a joke about how hard this data would be). Hard but not impossible. Maybe i…

It's been a while since I was a grad student but I think the raw station/radiosonde data is interpolated into a grid format before it's put into the standard models.

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#22

This is fascinating: > For inputs, GraphCast requires just two sets of data: the state of the weather 6 hours ago, and the current state of the weather. The model then predicts the weather 6 hours in the future. This process can then be rolled forward in 6-hour increments to provide state-of-the-art forecasts up to 10 days in advance.

I don't know much about weather prediction, but if a model can improve the state of the art only with that data as input, my conclusion is that previous models were crap... or am I missing something?

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#23

This is fascinating: > For inputs, GraphCast requires just two sets of data: the state of the weather 6 hours ago, and the current state of the weather. The model then predicts the weather 6 hours in the future. This process can then be rolled forward in 6-hour increments to provide state-of-the-art forecasts up to 10 days in advance.

It's worth pointing out that "state of the weather" is a little bit hand-wavy. The GraphCast model requires a fully-assimilated 3D atmospheric state - which means you still need to run a full-complexity numerical weather prediction system with a massive amount of inputs to actually get to the starting line for using this forecast tool.

Initializing directly from, say, geostationary and LEO satellite data with complementary surface station observations - skipping the assimilation step entirely - is clearly where this revolution is headed, but it's very important to explicitly note that we're not there yet (even in a research capacity).

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#24

To call this impressive is an understatement. Using a single GPU, outperforms models that run on the world's largest super computers. Completely open sourced - not just model weights. And fairly simple training / input data. > ... with the current version being the largest we can practically fit under current engineering constraints, but which have potential to scale much further in the future with greater compute re…

They said single TPU machine to be fair, which means like 8 TPUs (still impressive)

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#25

To call this impressive is an understatement. Using a single GPU, outperforms models that run on the world's largest super computers. Completely open sourced - not just model weights. And fairly simple training / input data. > ... with the current version being the largest we can practically fit under current engineering constraints, but which have potential to scale much further in the future with greater compute re…

It builds on top of supercomputer model output and does better at the specific task of medium term forecasts.

It is a kind of iterative refinement on the data that supercomputers produce — it doesn’t supplant supercomputers. In fact the paper calls out that it has a hard dependency on the output produced by supercomputers.

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#26
post #4

I've been following these global ML weather models. The fact they make good forecasts at all was very impressive. What is blowing my mind is how fast they run. It takes hours on giant super computers for numerical weather prediction models to forecast the entire globe. These ML models are taking minutes or seconds. This is potentially huge for operational forecasting. Weather forecasting has been moving focus towards…

Absolutely - but large ensembles are just the tip of the iceberg. Why bother producing an ensemble when you could just output the posterior distribution of many forecast predictands on a dense grid? One could generate the entire ensemble-derived probabilities from a single forward model run.

Another very cool application could incorporate generative modeling. Inject a bit of uncertainty in a some observations and study how the manifold of forecast outputs changes... ultimately, you could tackle things like studying the sensitivity of forecast uncertainty for, say, a tropical cyclone or nor'easter relative to targeted observations. Imagine a tool where you could optimize where a Global Hawk should drop rawindsondes over the Pacific Ocean to maximally decrease forecast uncertainty for a big winter storm impacting New England...

We may not be able to engineer the weather anytime soon, but in the next few years we may have a new type of crystal ball for anticipating its nuances with far more fidelity than ever before.

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#27
I've never studied weather forecasting, but I can't say I'm surprised. All of these models, AFAICT, are based on the "state" of the weather, but "state" deserves massive scare quotes: it's a bunch of 2D fields (wind speed, pressure, etc) -- note the 2D. Actual weather dynamics happen in three dimensions, and three dimensional land features, buildings, etc as well as gnarly 2D surface phenomena (ocean surface temperature, ground surface temperature, etc) surely have strong effects.

On top of this, surely the actual observations that feed into the model are terrible -- they come from weather stations, sounding rockets, balloons, radar, etc, none of which seem likely to be especially accurate in all locations. Except that, where a weather station exists, the output of that station is the observation that people care about -- unless you're in an airplane, you don't personally care about the geopotential, but you do care about how windy it is, what the temperature and humidity are, and how much precipitation there is.

ISTM these dynamics ought to be better captured by learning them from actual observations than from trying to map physics both ways onto the rather limited datasets that are available. And a trained model could also learn about the idiosyncrasies of the observation and the extra bits of forcing (buildings, etc) that simply are not captured by the inputs.

(Heck, my personal in-my-head neural network can learn a mapping from NWS forecasts to NWS observations later in the same day that seems better than what the NWS itself produces. Surely someone could train a very simple model that takes NWS forecasts as inputs and produces its estimates of NWS observations during the forecast period as outputs, thus handling things like "the NWS consistently underestimates the daily high temperature at such-and-such location during a summer heat wave.")

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#28

In case someone is looking for historical weather data for ML training and prediction, I created an open-source weather API which continuously archives weather data. Using past and forecast data from multiple numerical weather models can be combined using ML to achieve better forecast skill than any individual model. Because each model is physically bound, the resulting ML model should be stable. See: https://open-me…

Open-Meteo has a great API too. I used it to build my iOS weather app Frej (open source and free: https://github.com/boxed/frej)

It was super easy and the responses are very fast.

Re: GraphCast: AI model for weather forecasting

#29
post #9
post #4

I've been following these global ML weather models. The fact they make good forecasts at all was very impressive. What is blowing my mind is how fast they run. It takes hours on giant super computers for numerical weather prediction models to forecast the entire globe. These ML models are taking minutes or seconds. This is potentially huge for operational forecasting. Weather forecasting has been moving focus towards…

Not to take away from the excitement but ML weather prediction builds upon the years of data produced by numerical models on supercomputers. It cannot do anything without that computation and its forecasts are dependent on the quality of that computation. Ensemble models are already used to quantify uncertainty (it’s referenced in their paper). But it is exciting that they are able to recognize patterns in multi year…

I don't get this. Surely past and real weather should be the input training data, not the output of numerical modeling?
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