Tragedy of return to hostile offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#21

Post by Devasta » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

No one can advocate for any improvement in their conditions with attitudes like yours.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#22

Post by bcrosby95 » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

My wife works customer service remotely.

> The longer we bemoan being forced to go to work in order to get paid, the more the rest of the population becomes convinced that the professional class is entitled and a bit spoiled.

I stopped caring about what random strangers think when I was in high school. The correct answer to this is to tell these random people who have no skin in the game to fuck off.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#23

Post by hotnfresh » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

> Mediocre teams compromise on their ways of working to avoid conflict;

Yeah, well, conflict with the corporate overlords tends to be pretty one-sided, so we’ll need to attack that problem if you want that to change. There are proven approaches. But this isn’t “compromise”, it’s workers having their work environment dictated to them.

> sacrificing their team’s potential on the altar of individual autonomy.

Oh wow, uh, that was not the direction I expected the rest of that sentence to go.

> I’ve experienced some of my most joyful work in teams working together in the same space. I’ve benefited from flexibility and inclusion with remote work. I’ve also been able to contribute as part of larger open source communities where I couldn’t even know everyone by name.

On the topic of knowing everyone by name: so very much easier remote. Real people don’t have a name tag next to every statement they make, or hovering under their face at all times. Much harder in person.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#24

Post by ericfrazier » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

All those other jobs you mentioned don't have offices to work remotely from... I don't see the comparison.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#25

Post by jerf » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

There is a way of generalizing this to all of them, though, which is: Why should any of them have to do anything they don't actually have to do for their job? A relevant example to many hourly jobs might be managers being inflexible in their hours more-or-less just because they can. (Though this has gotten "better" as more and more businesses staff down and they're being inflexible because they have to be to be open at all... which is not exactly manifesting as an improvement for the worker, though.) Doctors might wonder why they went to school for over a decade and have 1.5 administrators per doctor and still need to spend the majority of their time filling out paperwork. Etc.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#26

Post by ForgotIdAgain » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

I don't think the fact that remote work is not possible for other professionals is relevant. If it is about fairness, you could say it is even an advantage for other workers since it means less traffic congestion, better access to restaurant and less land use.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#27

Post by r3d0c » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

if their professions allowed them to work from home they should be

don't know what this argument is supposed to be? seems like something a ceo made up to emotionally justify their position rather than based in any sort of objective reasoning

things shouldn't get better because other things haven't gotten better? is that the crux of your argument?

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#28

Post by neutronicus » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

The rest of the population presumably appreciates not having to share the road with us, at least.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#29

Post by francisofascii » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

lobsterslive wrote: post #16

Having your own private bathroom is a really underrated perk of WFH. There are of course many more benefits to WFH, but using your own bathroom is something no office and their disgusting communal bathrooms could ever compete with.

Even more important to me is a private, fully stocked kitchen.

Re: Tragedy of return to hostile offices

#30

Post by broast » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #13

So, I have often worked remotely, think it's fine, and makes sense in some cases. But, honestly, this is a professional-class issue, and every article about it seems written from a viewpoint that has forgotten about most of the population. The waitress and cook never had the option of working remotely, nor did the factory worker, the construction worker, the taxicab driver, the truck driver, etc. etc. Most of the pop…

Spoiled, or righteous indignation? Never have we been more productive as individuals, and efficient as an org. And no one has presented any actual functional reason to be in an office. No one wants to take a step backwards.