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Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#21

Post by BobaFloutist »

jmspring wrote: post #7

I'm sure many US-based tech companies can be blamed for preferring the cheaper option ... I would think our visa process plays no small part here, further the lax compliance on what "special skillset" means in the case of H-* visas. The system allows it, why not take advantage of such.

Work visas of this type should pretty clearly provide a path to at least permanent residency, otherwise the workers are captive employees, and, in any case, highly educated skilled workers that an employer is arguing they can't replace out of resident populations seem like a population that even people that want restrictions on immigration would consider good candidates for it.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#22

Post by ramadan_steve »

jmspring wrote: post #7

I'm sure many US-based tech companies can be blamed for preferring the cheaper option ... I would think our visa process plays no small part here, further the lax compliance on what "special skillset" means in the case of H-* visas. The system allows it, why not take advantage of such.

[dead]

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#23

Post by [deleted] »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #21
jmspring wrote: post #7

I'm sure many US-based tech companies can be blamed for preferring the cheaper option ... I would think our visa process plays no small part here, further the lax compliance on what "special skillset" means in the case of H-* visas. The system allows it, why not take advantage of such.

Work visas of this type should pretty clearly provide a path to at least permanent residency, otherwise the workers are captive employees, and, in any case, highly educated skilled workers that an employer is arguing they can't replace out of resident populations seem like a population that even people that want restrictions on immigration would consider good candidates for it.

[deleted]

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#24

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

I'm pretty sympathetic to Apple here. The article makes it sound like they did this for no reason, but the point of these hidden PERM positions is to be escape valves for the bonkers H1B system, which otherwise requires that skilled, valuable employees get booted out of the country after 3-6 years. If the government doesn't want Apple jumping through loopholes they should pass a more reasonable skilled visa program.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#25

Post by FireBeyond »

TMWNN wrote: post #10
PabloRobles wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX works on (potentially) military techologies covered by ITAR protection.

... which makes the DoJ going after SpaceX for allegedly not hiring refugees/non-citizens all the stranger.

Because those people were able to legally do some of those jobs, but SpaceX chose not to consider them because it would be more administration/bureaucracy for SpaceX. Ergo, discriminating on the basis of their status.

It was the same with disabilities, leading to the creation of the ADA. Companies would argue that they shouldn't have to hire someone in a wheelchair because it would cost them money to build wheelchair ramps and other accessibility aids.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#26

Post by clumsysmurf »

I worked at a company owned by some large banks. When the immigration lawyer came for a meetings roughly once per year, the place got super quiet. Everyone I worked with did basic stuff ... docker, Spring Boot, and I didn't understand how such basic positions needed visas in such a large metro like Phoenix. Yet, the pay was comparable ... there must be some angle I don't understand.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#27

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

I suspect that this is more a "certain managers wanted certain types of employees," as opposed to a systemic, companywide decree from Up High (like IBM's ageism).

Apple just makes too damn much money to worry overmuch about salaries. If anything, a lot of managers like H1Bs, because they can drive them like slaves. I've seen exactly that, in front of my own eyes. It's pretty disturbing, if you are a manager like me.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#29

Post by at-fates-hands »

jmspring wrote: post #7

I'm sure many US-based tech companies can be blamed for preferring the cheaper option ... I would think our visa process plays no small part here, further the lax compliance on what "special skillset" means in the case of H-* visas. The system allows it, why not take advantage of such.

I find it interesting that Apple hasn't done what many other large US corporations have done and just open offices in a country like India. Then they essentially get rid of any US based employees. No H1B's needed and you're still paying pennies on the dollar for the work.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#30

Post by jkaplowitz »

justrealist wrote: post #9

This is the thing where when you want to sponsor a specific employee for an H1B you have to post notices pretending to look for American citizens instead. Every FAANG is guilty of this. Every startup is guilty of this. There is no law less adhered to in the US. Everyone posts the notice on the office fridge or the receptionist stand or runs some newspaper ad to cover the nominal letter of the law. It's completely poi…

Those tricks definitely occur, but they are also not required in most cases: the relevant obligations only apply when (1) the employer falls under the regulatory definition of either an H-1B dependent employer or a willful violator , BUT NOT IF (2) the candidate is paid at least $60k per year or has a relevant master’s degree.

In our industry it’s rare for condition 2 to be false, even when condition 1 is true. So usually they can just be brazen about not trying to find American candidates. Regardless, non-discrimination rules still apply.

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