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Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

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Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#21

Post by linuxftw »

The originally announced F150 lightening price was under $40k, and there were also some incentives IIRC. The cheapest ones are about $60k now. A lot of people were interested in the truck for the lower $30k's, but much more than that is a non-starter.

The marketing for these vehicles is also laughable. Instead of advertising real-world range for a 10k towing load, they talk about how it can power your blender.

The mustang mach-e is another flop. A lot of people rushed out to buy one during the supply chain crunch, values shot up, now Ford can't give them away.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#22

Post by yourusername »

slaw wrote: post #18
sseagull wrote: post #5

The headline basically says it all. My 15 year old car is starting to get some issues so I was browsing some EVs. They are literally twice as expensive as a comparable ICE car, even after tax incentives. With interest rates where they are, 22k vs 44k is a huge difference. They are just unaffordable for a lot of people. (Also, was looking for a sedan. They don’t seem to make a lot of EV sedans, and I find the hatchbac…

15 years is too early to give up on a car unless it is corrosion. Learn how to fix your car yourself. Parts are inexpensive only labor is like $300-$500/real working hour.

Depends on how much you drive. at 30k km a year the average car is done after 15 years and 450k km.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#23

Post by toomuchtodo »

linuxftw wrote: post #21

The originally announced F150 lightening price was under $40k, and there were also some incentives IIRC. The cheapest ones are about $60k now. A lot of people were interested in the truck for the lower $30k's, but much more than that is a non-starter. The marketing for these vehicles is also laughable. Instead of advertising real-world range for a 10k towing load, they talk about how it can power your blender. The mu…

Doesn’t help that the Mach E is being recalled due to a battery design that requires HV battery disassembly and reassembly.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#24

Post by daedalus_j »

slaw wrote: post #19
paulryanrogers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly untrue in large parts of the US. Often it becomes an extension of ones identity. To not have one is a clear signal you're too poor or too 'city'. (Having the wrong one is similarly troublesome for ones social life.)

I am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.

Perhaps you're high enough up the ladder that those are simply the people you know and interact with?

Move higher up and "personal city on the moon" becomes the status symbol. Move lower down and it's still cars. What type of car, and what modifications it has, etc, become quite important talking points.

A recent SMBC seems to me to explain it well: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/esteem-2

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#25

Post by [deleted] »

slaw wrote: post #19
paulryanrogers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly untrue in large parts of the US. Often it becomes an extension of ones identity. To not have one is a clear signal you're too poor or too 'city'. (Having the wrong one is similarly troublesome for ones social life.)

I am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.

[deleted]

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#26

Post by sseagull »

yourusername wrote: post #22
slaw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years is too early to give up on a car unless it is corrosion. Learn how to fix your car yourself. Parts are inexpensive only labor is like $300-$500/real working hour.

Depends on how much you drive. at 30k km a year the average car is done after 15 years and 450k km.

Wow, it is not driven nearly that much. It has But it did spend its first 6 or 7 years in Western NY, with snowy, salty roads a good chunk of the year. There definitely is some rusty spots and corrosion.

I think people who do stuff like fix their own cars (and lots of other things) very much underestimate the time it takes to acquire the knowledge, and how much intuition they've unknowingly built up while they did it. Replacing a part is relatively easy, knowing what part to replace is its own skill. So cars is one of those things I will happily hand off to someone else to fix, while I focus on home repair or something.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#27

Post by FirmwareBurner »

JackMorgan wrote: post #15
vasdae wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This demonstrably false. This is a paranoid take that disregards the actual facts. The same was said of cars when horses were popular. Economies of scale will make EVs cheaper. The more produced the cheaper they get. The hidden costs of ICE vehicles means that they are only priced as low as they are because of significant discounting of their real effects on air quality, climate, and diminishing oil supply. If those…

>We want our children to grow up in a world where humans can thrive instead of hiding underground to keep cool from deadly heat and starving from the lack of stable food production.

Sure, but most of global harming pollution doesn't come from ICE cars and it won't be solved by people switching to EVs.

EV evangelists should know that EV manufacturing is 70% more environmentally damaging than building ICE cars. Also, mining enough materials to replace all ICE cars on the road today with EVs would literally obliterate the planet.

So no, the reality is we literally can't all have EVs, or cars of any kind for that matter, if we really wish to save the planet, instead of pretending that we are just to sell EVs.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#28

Post by lnxg33k1 »

vasdae wrote: post #8
sseagull wrote: post #5

The headline basically says it all. My 15 year old car is starting to get some issues so I was browsing some EVs. They are literally twice as expensive as a comparable ICE car, even after tax incentives. With interest rates where they are, 22k vs 44k is a huge difference. They are just unaffordable for a lot of people. (Also, was looking for a sedan. They don’t seem to make a lot of EV sedans, and I find the hatchbac…

[flagged]

Yeah they’re taking personal transportation and braincells, so the 1% can sustain the multi trillion car industry by itself, because the economic boom wasnt sustained by the access to personal transportation to the masses

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#29

Post by pornel »

tpmoney wrote: post #4
slaw wrote: post #3

What is blocking import of EVs from China. I saw 3000-4000 RMB ~ $400 electric scooters in China that I would use in US instead of a car for local trips.

I suspect a combination of safety standards and an unwillingness for the Chinese companies to deal with the process of certifying or complying, a local hesitation given the well known problems with Chinese electric bike and scooter battery charging and fires, and current ongoing global political concerns that have the US and US companies reevaluating how strongly tied to China they want to be.

MG, Nio, BYD cars manage to pass UK and Australian safety tests, and end up with very good scores.

US has EV incentives explicitly tied to domestic production, so it's about industry protectionism.

US probably doesn't want a repeat of what happened to Detroit industry after Japanese imports.

Re: Ford hits the brakes on $12B in EV spending

#30

Post by tguedes »

slaw wrote: post #19
paulryanrogers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly untrue in large parts of the US. Often it becomes an extension of ones identity. To not have one is a clear signal you're too poor or too 'city'. (Having the wrong one is similarly troublesome for ones social life.)

I am just a software developer and I don't know a single person who thinks car is a status symbol of any kind. Private jets and yachts are.

It's important to recognize the bubble you're in. Go to the American south and the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge is a major identity for a lot of people. You'll see ridiculous bumper stickers like "I'd rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy." or "Ford. Like Chevy but for men."

And the more you customize your truck, the "higher" your status. To the point where you get ridiculous monstrosities like this https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTCPjEi.... There is no point to this besides to declare ones status.

Hell even closer to your bubble of private jets and yachts, plenty of high net worth people collect expensive and rare cars. It is a major status symbol to say they have 1 of 500 La Ferraris made or 1 of 375 McLaren P1's.

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