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Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

phys.org

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Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#21

Post by asimpletune »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #8

People generally dont know it, but the facts/debate around the sophistication of populations thousands of years ago, and how those vary across geographies, is extremely political. There is generally an unseen hand that dictates the narrative around the distant human past. You can pull the facts together, but the full picture is almost never presented cohesively to the non academic population.

I don’t think it’s political, but rather a matter of record. There is much more writing from Greece than the Amazon.

Having the Iliad amounts to a cheat code in archaeology.

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#22

Post by flybrand »

skylurk wrote: post #16
irrational wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like horses in the Americas. There is a narrative that horses were in the Americas, then died off, then were reintroduced by Spanish conquistadors. But, there is sporadic evidence that horses did exist in the Americas the entire time.

Mind sharing a link to that evidence?

Yes, or a book?

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#23

Post by civilitty »

mdkdog wrote: post #11

in Italy there are "the stones of famine". not that old but interesting anyway. one reads "if you see me you must be crying". https://blog.3bee.com/pietre-della-fame-siccita/ sorry... can't find english version.

Also known as hunger stones in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_stone

They're all over central Europe.

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#24

Post by zo1 »

phowat wrote: post #20
irrational wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like horses in the Americas. There is a narrative that horses were in the Americas, then died off, then were reintroduced by Spanish conquistadors. But, there is sporadic evidence that horses did exist in the Americas the entire time.

Honest question as I have no horse on this race (pun intended) and you picqued my curiosity. How the hell can the pre existence of horses be politicized?

I guess it adds weight to the whole "natives own this land and colonizers didn't bring anything to this land", notably as push back against the other side which is "natives are backwards and this land wasn't all that useful until we brought technology (horses)."

Both caricatures ofc. But then again, they have to be because in the political arena details and facts don't matter at the end of the day as it's all about marketing.

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#26

Post by [deleted] »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #8

People generally dont know it, but the facts/debate around the sophistication of populations thousands of years ago, and how those vary across geographies, is extremely political. There is generally an unseen hand that dictates the narrative around the distant human past. You can pull the facts together, but the full picture is almost never presented cohesively to the non academic population.

[deleted]

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#27

Post by irrational »

phowat wrote: post #20
irrational wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like horses in the Americas. There is a narrative that horses were in the Americas, then died off, then were reintroduced by Spanish conquistadors. But, there is sporadic evidence that horses did exist in the Americas the entire time.

Honest question as I have no horse on this race (pun intended) and you picqued my curiosity. How the hell can the pre existence of horses be politicized?

We had a Mayan guide when we were in the Yucatan on vacation. He spent quite a bit of time pointing out proofs (as the native Mayans see them) of horses being around the entire time. He claimed to have a college degree in archaeology, but went on a rant about non-Mayan archealogists and their bias against native Mayans. Basically, he saw the disbelief against horses being around the whole time as racially motivated. Those dumb mayans don't know what they are talking about. I'm trying now to remember the proofs he was showing, but at the time I remember being pretty surprised since it seemed cut and dry.

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#28

Post by londons_explore »

nescioquid wrote: post #14

The article closes by quoting an historian involved: "Having our rivers back (flooded) and keeping the engravings submerged will help preserve them, even more than our work." Is there a risk to the carvings by being exposed to air rather than the erosive river currents? In colder climates, freezing can erode rocks, but I don't imagine that's relevant here.

Nearly everything old survives best undiscovered.

Think of those dinosaur fossil teeth that survived buried for hundreds of millions of years, only to get dug up by a fossil hunter, sold to a collector, lives on the collectors mantlepiece for 40 years, then lives in boxes in the collectors sons attic for 60 years, and finally gets trashed (incinerated, destroying it).

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#29

Post by [deleted] »

swatcoder wrote: post #19
woliveirajr wrote: post #3

Engravings that are 2,000 years old: so the river was (at least) this low without the current climate change, no?

I'm going to generously assume that you're asking a sincere question and not trying some tired political baiting, even though you mentioned climate change out of nowhere. Yes, rivers are extremely dynamic -- they run dry, flood, and change course over time. Often, those changes are dramatic and oscillatory so the same path may repeatedly run dry or wet over periods of years, decades, centuries, millennia, and longer.…

[deleted]

Re: Drought in Brazil's Amazon reveals ancient engravings

#30

Post by biorach »

irrational wrote: post #27
phowat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question as I have no horse on this race (pun intended) and you picqued my curiosity. How the hell can the pre existence of horses be politicized?

We had a Mayan guide when we were in the Yucatan on vacation. He spent quite a bit of time pointing out proofs (as the native Mayans see them) of horses being around the entire time. He claimed to have a college degree in archaeology, but went on a rant about non-Mayan archealogists and their bias against native Mayans. Basically, he saw the disbelief against horses being around the whole time as racially motivated.…

> I'm trying now to remember the proofs he was showing

I don't want to sound mean, but without any links to anything, any mentions of books, papers, even mentions of archaeological finds in local newspapers... what you're saying is just a story about someone you met who made some outlandish claims.

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