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I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

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21–30 of 73 posts

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#21

I get the point the writer is making: web development is a mess. However, I also think that stepping off that treadmill can make one's impression of the field a bit skewed, because there is no longer an incentive of the writer to keep up with the nuances of the changes. Web frameworks do come and go, but they're also not that different from each other. New ones show up, but that doesn't mean that everyone flocks to t…

I feel like I stepped off frontend the treadmill and haven’t been able to catch up with frontend. React, Angular, Vue, Next, Nuxt, Svelte, Typsecript, Tailwind, Bundlers.

It feels like a mountain to climb to get my head around that lot!

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#22
As an old web developer myself, that surfed pretty much all the waves (No JS, just a Perl or PHP monolith, then JS with XMLHTTPRequest, jQuery, Backbone, Ember, WebPack, Angular 1 and finally React) this argument doesn't make sense. No, there isn't a new JS framework every minute. No, you don't need to learn a new thing everyday. There's really only 4 framerworks (React, Vue, Angular & Svelte, in this order), they pretty much do the same thing (Replace explicitness with declarativiness) and the only thing that changes is how you use them (Which you can learn in less than a week if you're a experienced developer).

The way we do stuff today is just a better and improved way to do the same thing we used to do yesterday, the fact that we have so much tooling is just a reflection of the fact that the web was created to serve documents and now we need to serve apps, so we need transformers along the way that allow for that 100% change of scope. But we aren't changing the base (HTML/CSS/JS, which we should), just the wrappers on top of it.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#23
post #5

I get the point the writer is making: web development is a mess. However, I also think that stepping off that treadmill can make one's impression of the field a bit skewed, because there is no longer an incentive of the writer to keep up with the nuances of the changes. Web frameworks do come and go, but they're also not that different from each other. New ones show up, but that doesn't mean that everyone flocks to t…

I don't know man, I've seen frameworks rise, gain massive adoption and then be abandoned as everyone moves to the next hot thing. I watched everyone adopt AngularJS and then have to migrated to Angular 2.0 and then everyone migrated to React. During this time, the backend folks wrote java services using SpringBoot and then migrated to SpringBoot and then when that wasn't abandoned, moved to SpringBoot. Web developmen…

I'll just pile on my anecdote because I am a backend dev but want to make websites since apparently end users don't like reading and hand-composing JSON or something.

A while ago, a few years I think, I learned react with class components. Hooks were never mentioned, so I don't know if they didn't exist yet or were in some nascent stage. I thought "huh neat this makes writing js not completely awful" - my only "frontend"-related background was in desktop UI development with Swing and Qt and such. As I mentioned, I'm mostly a backend dev.

Anyway, I wrote a small internal app for my job at the time and shipped it and it was neat, all the other backend devs (we had ~no frontend devs) were suitably impressed with how much less awful react was than vanilla JS.

Fast forward... I suspect 3-ish years. Suddenly hooks were popular and class components were not and people were being pushed to migrate (since newer versions of libraries were preferring hooks). My hard-won frontend knowledge is already outdated! And imagine my surprise when I learned SSR was back?? and something about next.js which I guess is still react but it's a server packaging of it as well and that bleeds over into letting you do more stuff on the frontend, something about server-side props? I was disappointed with how much had changed despite the actual product - the websites you can build - still essentially staying the same.

And this is just for React - the winner! I had managed to correctly pick the winner and there's still all this churn. Meanwhile, as you mentioned, rails is still almost exactly the same (all its churn has been trying to pick a not-awful way to integrate javascript, ironically) despite several major versions passing, Spring is the same, etc.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#24
post #19
post #17

Starting a fresh new (internal) project in our company, no specs, no borders, we can use any JS lib, framework, tool, whatever. Now we stay like a kid in front of a candy shop and don't know what to choose. Anything has pros and cons, but nothing really convinces us. It seems that all candies look great but taste like spoiled fish. We are a small team and we don't have the time to update the app with every new versio…

10 years ago I was creating apps with Ember.js, which is still a current JS framework.

And how many times you have to update your app? How many time you need for maintain?

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#25
post #13

I'll be the contrarian. I'm in my mid 40s and have been designing / developing for the web now for 25 years professionally. I built my personal site in Astro, Svelte and Xata because they were all new technologies and I enjoy learning new things. The fact that things change so much is actually a reason I've remained so excited about my work for so long. I love the learning part of things so much, that when I'd grown…

I’m kinda in the same boat but lately (last few years) have been frustrated as I’ve ventured outside of web tech in seeking new things and found so many nice things in other platforms that its just sad to see “progress” trying to catch up innovation that has happened elsewhere.

I’ve tried closure, elixir and a bit of haskell and all have so many great lessons that are yet to be learned elsewhere.

After developing professionally in PHP, ruby, python and javascript and trying out other languages and frameworks at some point one can see so many great ideas that you can’t really use because the language doesn’t allow it. Like how much more would we have to wait for a normal low level lib for javascript/node, or even things like the pipe operator.

Various frameworks and libraries allow you a glimpse of whats possible, but then when one reads ip on the inspiration behind them and tries them out in their “native” environment, it just kinda sad how much can be lost “in translation”.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#26
post #5

I get the point the writer is making: web development is a mess. However, I also think that stepping off that treadmill can make one's impression of the field a bit skewed, because there is no longer an incentive of the writer to keep up with the nuances of the changes. Web frameworks do come and go, but they're also not that different from each other. New ones show up, but that doesn't mean that everyone flocks to t…

I don't know man, I've seen frameworks rise, gain massive adoption and then be abandoned as everyone moves to the next hot thing. I watched everyone adopt AngularJS and then have to migrated to Angular 2.0 and then everyone migrated to React. During this time, the backend folks wrote java services using SpringBoot and then migrated to SpringBoot and then when that wasn't abandoned, moved to SpringBoot. Web developmen…

I started around 2009, and while I certainly felt overwhelmed at several points during the framework craze, I never got tired of it because it was exciting. As soon as I started hearing about hydration though, that was my breaking point. I'm just tired of it all.

That being said, I do love Astro. It's a very nice, easy experience.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#28
post #5

I get the point the writer is making: web development is a mess. However, I also think that stepping off that treadmill can make one's impression of the field a bit skewed, because there is no longer an incentive of the writer to keep up with the nuances of the changes. Web frameworks do come and go, but they're also not that different from each other. New ones show up, but that doesn't mean that everyone flocks to t…

I don't know man, I've seen frameworks rise, gain massive adoption and then be abandoned as everyone moves to the next hot thing. I watched everyone adopt AngularJS and then have to migrated to Angular 2.0 and then everyone migrated to React. During this time, the backend folks wrote java services using SpringBoot and then migrated to SpringBoot and then when that wasn't abandoned, moved to SpringBoot. Web developmen…

Meanwhile Ember has quietly improved and reinvented itself steadily over the last decade-plus, while maintaining compatibility responsibly the entire time. Sure it’s not always been on the cutting-edge (which I guess is why it lost its cachet) but its relative stability through fundamental reworking of its core have enabled me to happily maintain multiple SPAs that I started with as far back as 2015 when everyone was adopting AngularJS.

All this is to say that there are projects and communities that value stability with stagnating so you can still have “nice things” without feeling stuck on a hamster wheel.

Re: I Am Happy Not to Be a Web Developer Anymore

#30
post #22

As an old web developer myself, that surfed pretty much all the waves (No JS, just a Perl or PHP monolith, then JS with XMLHTTPRequest, jQuery, Backbone, Ember, WebPack, Angular 1 and finally React) this argument doesn't make sense. No, there isn't a new JS framework every minute. No, you don't need to learn a new thing everyday. There's really only 4 framerworks (React, Vue, Angular & Svelte, in this order), they pr…

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