Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 154 posts

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#21

Post by clarionbell »

jeroenhd wrote: post #13
fer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain has been traditionally and particularly idiotic about tech legislation. Some examples: - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive, SSD, printer... as a "just in case it happens to store/copy copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. - They forced link aggregators to pay newspapers/sites for linking to their content, even just using their tags. [1]. So such insane statement…

> - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive and SSD as a "just in case it happens to store copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. Sadly, Spain isn't the only country that does this. The copyright lobby has been very successful at making people fund their failing business model.

Yep. Unfortunately this is pretty normal. I would be fine with it, if it meant I get immunity from persecution when distributing pirated content. Unfortunately that would go against corporate rent seeking.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#22

Post by clarionbell »

maccard wrote: post #6
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

The EU don't have a monopoly on dumb laws. > The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence. Lots of us think that the world would be better if tech companies didn't play so fast and loose with our data, and were better regulated.

Great, now you will see how that looks.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#23

Post by lkramer »

na2083z wrote: post #19
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

[flagged]

yeah, conservative across the world are famously hands off in interfering in their citizen's lifes...

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#24

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

[deleted]

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#25

Post by [deleted] »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #14

How comes people using the well-known "children protection" manipulation and the "I have nothing to hide" fallacy to legally (thogh unenforceably) destroy privacy creating a total surveilance dystopia and put everyone in iminent danger (because whatever secrets only a government agency has access to, will sooner or later leak anway) are allowed to shape EU policies? To me they clearly seem either intentionally malevo…

[deleted]

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#26

Post by hutzlibu »

rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

Luckily governments are not a monolithic and coherent block. France for example was an early backer of matrix..

So if the worst happens and a mandatory chat control will gets implemented by the government, then it is a good thing that other parts of the government helped making sure, there are working alternatives avaiable, that are not so easy to regulate.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#27

Post by hef19898 »

jabradoodle wrote: post #18
hef19898 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it just means whatever data they have is less secure. Encryption does nothing about data collection.

This is a silly distinction, if they have just as much data but it's encrypted and they can't use it, most people would call that less data.

I am as much anti sureveillance as you get. There is abdifference so between end-to-end encryption of communications (all for it) and collecting user data (all against it). Usually I hate semantics, because most of the time people use it to nitpick on deffinitiom ignoring what people understand using a word, but here the differwnce between the two things is a) technical reality and b) relevant for topic at hand.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#28

Post by mrtksn »

roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

EU is a wide range of countries with very wide range of expectations on anything so all generalizations are wrong.

EU’s function is to create a mechanism to find a common ground but that’s very hard so that’s why EU is has made a name for being slow and ineffective.

Spain and Switzerland or Sweden and Italy would have very, very different understanding on what the state should be able to do and how much involvement they must have because the way they govern their countries and the problems they face are very different.

Spain or Italy would usually be arguing on preserving some traditional way of doing things, Finland and Denmark would attack the issue very pragmatically and have great ideas that can’t possibly work anywhere else and the France and Germany would propose something that would increase their power in the area and the original concerns would be secondary.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#29

Post by gotbeans »

roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

Not surprising from Spain if you ask me.

Spain's central gov's been found to actively spy trhough malware politically opposing parties[1], so hearing they are against e2e encryption just sounds about right.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CatalanGate

Post reply on HN