The main reason for not using causal inference is not because data scientists don’t know about the different approaches or can’t imagine something equivalent (a lot of reinvention); forecasting is one of the most common tasks, after all. The main reason is that they generally work for software companies where it’s easier and less susceptible to analyst influence to implement the suggested change and test it with a Ra…
Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
21–30 of 106 posts
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#22I am aware of three reputable causal inference frameworks:
1. Judea Pearl's framework, which dominates in CS and AI circles
2. Neyman-Rubin causal model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_causal_model
3. Structural equation modelling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_equation_modeling
None of them would acknowledge each other, but I believe the underlying methodology is the same/similar. :-)
It's good to see that it is becoming more accepted, especially in Medicine, as it will give more, potentially life-saving, information to make decisions.
In Social Sciences, on the other hand, causal inference is being completely willfully ignored. Why? Causal inference is an obstacle to making a preconceived conclusions based on pure correlations: something correlates with something, therefore ... invest large sums of money, change laws in our favor, etc... This works for both sides. Sadly, I don't think this could be fixed.
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#23I've self-learned for a long time in the causal inference space and model evaluation is a concern for me. My biggest concern is falsification of hypotheses. In ML, you have a clear mechanism to check estimation/prediction through holdout approaches. In classical metrics, you have model metrics that can be used to define reasonable rejection regions for hypothesis tests. But causal inference doesn't seem to have this,…
To be clear, you can overfit while your validation loss does not decrease. If your train and test data are too similar then no holdout will help you measure generalization. You have to remember that datasets are proxies for the thing you're actually trying to model, they are not the thing you are modeling themselves. You can usually see this when testing on in class but out of train/test distribution data (e.g. data from someone else).
You have to be careful because there are a lot of small and non-obvious things that can fuck up statistics. There's a lot of aggregation "paradoxes" (Simpsons, Berkson's), and all kinds of things that can creep in. This is more perilous the bigger your model too. The story of the Monte Hall problem is a great example of how easy it is to get the wrong answer while it seems like you're doing all the right steps.
For the article, the author is far too handwavy with causal inference. The reason we tend not to do it is because it is fucking hard and it scales poorly. Models like Autoregressive (careful here) and Normalizing Flows can do causal inference (and causal discovery) fwiw (essentially you need explicit density models with tractable densities: referring to Goodfellow's taxonomy). But things get funky as you get a lot of variables because there are indistinguishable causal graphs (see Hyvarien and Pajunen). Then there's also the issues with the types of causalities (see Judea's Ladder) and counterfactual inference is FUCKING HARD but the author just acts like it's no big deal. Then he starts conflating it with weaker forms of causal inference. Correlation is the weakest form of causation, despite our often chanted saying of "correlation does not equate to causation" (which is still true, it's just in the class and the saying is more getting at confounding variable). This very much does not scale. Similarly discovery won't scale as you have to permute so many variables in the graph. The curse of dimensionality hits causal analysis HARD.
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#24The main reason for not using causal inference is not because data scientists don’t know about the different approaches or can’t imagine something equivalent (a lot of reinvention); forecasting is one of the most common tasks, after all. The main reason is that they generally work for software companies where it’s easier and less susceptible to analyst influence to implement the suggested change and test it with a Ra…
A/b experiments are definitely a gold standard as they provide true causality measurement (if implemented correctly). However, they are often expensive to run: need to implement the feature in question (which is less than 50% going to work) and then collect data for 1-4 weeks before being able to make the decision. As a result only a small number of business decisions today rely on a/b tests. Observational causal inf…
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#25In Corporate and Medical data science fields, people begin to accept causal inference. It is difficult, as the subject is still in flux and under development. I am aware of three reputable causal inference frameworks: 1. Judea Pearl's framework, which dominates in CS and AI circles 2. Neyman-Rubin causal model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubin_causal_model 3. Structural equation modelling: https://en.wikipedia.org…
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually causal inference is also really hard to benchmark. My colleague started an effort to be actually able to reproduce and compare results. Also the algorithms often do not scale too well. Everytime we wanted to use this for real data it is just a little bit too much effort and the results are not conclusive because it is hard to verify huge graphs. My colleague e.g. wanted to apply it explain risk confounders i…
You don’t need to look at a graph at all though, right? There are plenty of tests that can help you identify factors that could be significantly affecting your distribution
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be clear, the mechanism for checking ML doesn't really check ML. There's really little value in a confidence interval conditional on the same experimental conditions that produced the dataset on which the model is trained. I'd often say it's actively harmful, since it's mostly misleading. Insofar as causal inference has no such 'check', its because there never was any. Casual inference is about dispelling that ill…
> Insofar as causal inference has no such 'check', its because there never was any. Casual inference is about dispelling that illusion. Aye, and that's the issue I'm trying to understand. How to know if model 1 or model 2 is more "real" or, for my lack of a better term, more useful and reflective of reality? We can focus on a particular philosophical point, like parsimony / Occam's razor, but as far as I can tell tha…
I just want to second MJ's points here. You have to remember that 1) all models are wrong and 2) it's models all the way down. Your data is a model: it models the real world distribution, what we might call the target distribution, which is likely intractable and often very different from your data in various conditions. Your metrics are models: obviously given the previous point, but not as obvious from the point that even with perfect data these are still models. Your metrics all have limitations and you must be careful to clearly understand what they are measuring, rather than what you think they are. This is an issue of alignment and the vast majority of people do not consider precisely what their metrics mean and instead rely on the general consensus (great ML example: FID does not measure fidelity, it is distance measurement of distributions. But you shouldn't stop there, that's the start). These get especially fuzzy in higher dimensions where geometries are highly non-intuitive. It is best to remember that metrics are guides and not targets (Goodhart).
> There should be some way to determine a model's likelihood of structure beyond "trust me, it works!" If there is, I'm trying to understand it!
I mean we can use likelihood ;) if we model density of course. But that's not the likelihood that your model is the correct model, it is the likelihood that given the data that you have that your model's parameterization can reasonably model the sampling distribution of data. These are subtly different, the difference is from above. And then we gotta know if you're actually operating on the right number of dimensions. Are you approximating PCA like a typical VAE? Is the bottleneck enough for proper parameterization? Is your data in sufficient dimensionality? Does the fucking manifold hypothesis even hold for your data? What about the distribution assumption? IID? And don't get me started on indistinguishablity in large causal graphs (references in another comment).
So rather in practice it is just best to try to make a model that is robust to your data but always maintain suspicion of it. After all, all models are wrong and you're trying to model data, not have a model of data.
Evaluation is fucking hard (it is far too easy to make mistakes)
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#28The main reason for not using causal inference is not because data scientists don’t know about the different approaches or can’t imagine something equivalent (a lot of reinvention); forecasting is one of the most common tasks, after all. The main reason is that they generally work for software companies where it’s easier and less susceptible to analyst influence to implement the suggested change and test it with a Ra…
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Insofar as causal inference has no such 'check', its because there never was any. Casual inference is about dispelling that illusion. Aye, and that's the issue I'm trying to understand. How to know if model 1 or model 2 is more "real" or, for my lack of a better term, more useful and reflective of reality? We can focus on a particular philosophical point, like parsimony / Occam's razor, but as far as I can tell tha…
> How to know if model 1 or model 2 is more "real" or, for my lack of a better term, more useful and reflective of reality? I just want to second MJ's points here. You have to remember that 1) all models are wrong and 2) it's models all the way down. Your data is a model: it models the real world distribution, what we might call the target distribution, which is likely intractable and often very different from your d…
Re: Causal inference as a blind spot of data scientists
#30The main reason for not using causal inference is not because data scientists don’t know about the different approaches or can’t imagine something equivalent (a lot of reinvention); forecasting is one of the most common tasks, after all. The main reason is that they generally work for software companies where it’s easier and less susceptible to analyst influence to implement the suggested change and test it with a Ra…
Actually causal inference is also really hard to benchmark. My colleague started an effort to be actually able to reproduce and compare results. Also the algorithms often do not scale too well. Everytime we wanted to use this for real data it is just a little bit too much effort and the results are not conclusive because it is hard to verify huge graphs. My colleague e.g. wanted to apply it explain risk confounders i…