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The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

sharpeninghandbook.info

21–30 of 54 posts

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. I learned this "at the knee" from my grandfather and father. A few things in no particular order... This skill takes practice, the sharpening systems only help to get the angle consistent; you'll be happier if you learn to do it without one, practice on knives and especially scissors you don't care too much about first, you'll need a few stones and probably end up with several before you find the ones that work…

> razor-sharp is over-rated except for skinning, wood planes and chisels Razor-sharp is quite useful for razors. It's much safer to shave with a razor-sharp razor than a dull one.

Well, yes, and my straight razor is that sharp. Kitchen knives no and certainly not hatchets or axes.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#22

Years ago, when I lived in Seattle, I remember meeting an old Japanese blacksmith. I found him when I was looking to buy some of the pull-style hand saws, but when I met him to pick up the wares, it turned into a bit of a social call. He must've been around 80 or so, lived by himself in a house that was half home half workshop. Got into talking about saws and chisels and blades and sharpening, complete with a Mr.Miya…

Any tips to hold the angle steady?

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re your last point: There is some well researched material, along with scanning electron microscope images of edges, that says this is incorrect. When sharpening to say “working sharp” you leave a burr on the edge that can quickly be folded over, and reduce longevity of the sharpness of the edge. The most durable edges have been deburred to the true edge apex, and this often will give you an edge that would rate “raz…

I don't disagree at all but this might be a problem with folk knowledge and terminology. I was taught to remove the burr or wire, you could feel it, and took it off with a steel or ceramic stick. My grandfather was a machinist and woodworker and I doubt he knew what the edge looked like. "razor" meant a pass with very high count fine (3k, 6k+) stones and maybe paste (I have green paste... I think it's Chromium Oxide…

I'm not going to break out references to everything in the Knife deburring book, but I'd advocate that anyone who wants proof of what I'm basically parroting back (with photos and sharpness tests, wear tests, and real world tests to back that up) read the book.

Once you've ground an edge, there may be a burr or wire that you can feel. Secondary honing brings that edge to something so fine, you can't see it or feel it, but it's not the edge apex. There is either a wire edge so small you can't see it, a feather edge, or a foil edge. These edges after honing may even pass sharpness tests, but will almost immediately roll and lose sharpness. This is exacerbated by the modern "super" steels and stainless steels that are used in knives today, and that is a whole other avenue of discussion.

For example, take a pretty bog standard Global kitchen knife. This is a high vanadium content stainless steel, so it should be ground with a diamond or CBN wheel. Sharpening with conventional abrasives will actually erode the substrate steel around the vanadium carbides in the blade, giving the edge a toothed appearance that eventually results in carbide breakout during use. Because these knives are an "in-between" burr forming steel (which means they don't necessarily form a positive burr or negative burr) and because the vanadium carbides need to be honed away with diamonds, the recommended method for honing this knife would be to sharpen 12 deg per side edge angle, progressing up to 1000 grit CBN or diamond wheel while grinding into the edge, then de-burr the edge with a slotted paper wheel at 5 micron diamond paste, then with felt wheel running away from the edge, impregnated with diamond spray at 1 micron, and +0.8 degrees edge angle. This will remove the wire edge and deburr the edge down to the root of the edge apex. Then hone with slotted paper wheel with Chromium Oxide (which is about grit level 60,000 or 0.5 micron) on a paper wheel for the last pass. This should read about 40 BESS on a tester, and a SEM photo will show no foil or feather edge. That is about 10-15 BESS sharper than a safety razor, but that is what is required to get rid of the different type of burrs that will cause the knife to dull quickly. These degrees are very precise, free-hand sharpening will not end up with the desired effect.

Anyway, not far off what your grandfather recommended, but somewhat different. According to Dr. Kraichuk's testing, leaving the knife more dull than 50-90 BESS almost always has an undesirable edge burr, be it foil, feather, or wire. This burr will roll over almost immediately under use, bringing the knife to a "working sharp" level of 300 BESS, which is pretty bad.

I can't really summarize this book in a HN comment, but if you're at all interested in this research, check out that book. You can get it on a PDF from the author's website, http://knifegrinders.com.au but the author died suddenly so don't look for any support.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#24

Years ago, when I lived in Seattle, I remember meeting an old Japanese blacksmith. I found him when I was looking to buy some of the pull-style hand saws, but when I met him to pick up the wares, it turned into a bit of a social call. He must've been around 80 or so, lived by himself in a house that was half home half workshop. Got into talking about saws and chisels and blades and sharpening, complete with a Mr.Miya…

Any tips to hold the angle steady?

Practice. It is one of those things like riding a bike that you have to put in the time and mess up at if you want to master. It might take an hour or two to get that first blade sharp but once you develop the skill it will become easy. The biggest thing is to pay attention to what you are doing, how you hold the blade and the movements you are making and how that affects the edge. Check the edge often and examine the marks left by the stone, nice straight parallel even grooving tells you things are as they should be; they will appear slightly curved and/or look as if they fade away if you are changing angle during the stroke. The marks will actually tell you everything you are doing wrong or right once you learn to read them and some purposeful and exaggerated 'mistakes' can be helpful in learning to read them.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. I learned this "at the knee" from my grandfather and father. A few things in no particular order... This skill takes practice, the sharpening systems only help to get the angle consistent; you'll be happier if you learn to do it without one, practice on knives and especially scissors you don't care too much about first, you'll need a few stones and probably end up with several before you find the ones that work…

Or you can buy a jig like Spyderco Sharpmaker and have a razor-sharp edge in 5 minutes.

I used to own one, but I find the rods too short - it's good for small, 12-cm blades, but it's useless for anything bigger.

Right now I switched to proper water stones :)

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#26
post #17

I have been sharpening my own knives and tools for 45 years, and have been doing it in the same way since I was in my teens and my dad and I read some article (in Popular Science, maybe?) which Just Worked. My dad was a bit more patient than I have ever been and his edges always shaved hairs, dry. My edges are still quite good though. Anyway Ima procrastinating today and saw this HN item and hesitated, oh no, have I…

Bringing a knife to an AirBNB or a sharpener is a must imo. I have yet to ever go to one where the knives aren’t essentially prop knives they’re so dull.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#27

Years ago, when I lived in Seattle, I remember meeting an old Japanese blacksmith. I found him when I was looking to buy some of the pull-style hand saws, but when I met him to pick up the wares, it turned into a bit of a social call. He must've been around 80 or so, lived by himself in a house that was half home half workshop. Got into talking about saws and chisels and blades and sharpening, complete with a Mr.Miya…

Any tips to hold the angle steady?

He had different wedges of wood with angles matched to different plane irons -- the wood would slide on the table/bench while the edge of the blade would go over the stone. Holding the iron against the angled block seemed to keep the angle consistent.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#28
post #18

These are the methods I'm aware of: -randomly swipe that long skinny thing that's in the knife block along a chef's knife, perhaps aiming for 45 degree angle -as a kid my dad had something I think he called a whet stone. He'd put 3-in-1 oil on it and we'd carefully swipe the blade against the stone. Either of these right?

The first is a butchers steel, these were traditionally just a plain smooth steel rod which were used to repair the edge, shoving a knife through a joint tends to bend the very fine edge of the blade leaving what seems like a very dull spot. Essentially a heavy duty strop that would bend the edge back straight. These days they make them with abrasives embedded in the surface and are used to put a micro bevel on the knife, useful for the working chef but the home cook would be better off just sharpening the knife once or twice a month.

A whetstone is just a synonym for sharpening stone. The oil helps keep the removed particles of steel from getting embedded in the stone and clogging it. Water or oil is used with most types of sharpening stones for this purpose.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> razor-sharp is over-rated except for skinning, wood planes and chisels Razor-sharp is quite useful for razors. It's much safer to shave with a razor-sharp razor than a dull one.

Well, yes, and my straight razor is that sharp. Kitchen knives no and certainly not hatchets or axes.

Razor-sharp knives are safer to use than dull ones. Earlier today I was invited to a dinner by a family member, and she cut her finger, because, in her own words, she had to apply some force to cut an onion and she lost control of the knife (seriously, the f*king onion. It's ridiculous and I blame her husband for being lousy at sharpening). Cutting with razor-sharp knives requires almost zero force applied, which means you can focus on precision of movement, not strength.

Re: The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening (1985) [pdf]

#30
post #17

I have been sharpening my own knives and tools for 45 years, and have been doing it in the same way since I was in my teens and my dad and I read some article (in Popular Science, maybe?) which Just Worked. My dad was a bit more patient than I have ever been and his edges always shaved hairs, dry. My edges are still quite good though. Anyway Ima procrastinating today and saw this HN item and hesitated, oh no, have I…

In the spirit of the best camera is the one you have on you right now, this DMT hone fits on a keychain.

https://www.dmtsharp.com/sharpeners/pocket-sharpeners/mini-s...

I used to get by in a pinch with the bottom edge of a ceramic coffee cup but it’s nothing compared to having a properly flat and consistently abrasive stone on you. It struggles with anything longer than a steak knife but most times it’s a steak knife that needs licking up to an edge at the table of a well meaning but poorly equipped restaurant.

I keep meaning to impregnate the inside of my belt with diamond wax so that it too functions as a field strop, though it’s a bit harder to be subtle in taking one’s belt off in public.

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