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Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

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Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#21

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #18
lmm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to use something like snap/flatpak then all the distributions using your PPA repository have to provide the same libraries packaged the same way, and at that point what are they going to even gain from being different distributions in the first place? If someone wanted to make a fork of Ubuntu but all the packages and contents are exactly the same as mainline Ubuntu then they'd just use Ubuntu.

That's Okay. What I meant was just reorganizing an OS and its nonessential apps repository/ies into 2 (or more) separate projects, not making a repository compatible with every distro out there.

How would that solve the issue of keeping repositories in a both well-tested and up-to-date state? It seems to me it would only make the problem worse because we'd have different, possibly incompatible or unmaintained PPAs

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#22

Post by Vogtinator »

johnny22 wrote: post #10
qwerty456127 wrote: post #8

> It is built in the simplest way, using Devuan debootstrapped system with kernel, dtb, u-boot, and board support packages from Armbian By the way, reading this, an idea just hit me. It persistantly seems evident distro maintains often struggle to maintain huge repositories in both well-tested and up-to-date state. Why don't we separate OS distribution and apps repos into separate independent projects? Perhaps it cou…

that's the way the "immutable" distros are going. they provide a base system and then a ton of packages come from containers or flatpaks. Like things based on OpenSuSE's MicroOS or Fedora's Silverblue and Kinoite but it does require the flavors currently, since the DE are considered core packages.

MicroOS doesn't require flavors. You can select whatever package selection you want during installation.

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#23

Post by qwerty456127 »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #21
qwerty456127 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's Okay. What I meant was just reorganizing an OS and its nonessential apps repository/ies into 2 (or more) separate projects, not making a repository compatible with every distro out there.

How would that solve the issue of keeping repositories in a both well-tested and up-to-date state? It seems to me it would only make the problem worse because we'd have different, possibly incompatible or unmaintained PPAs

It would just let the OS engineers concentrate on the OS. Potentially making better OSes, maybe also more OSes to choose from, these being actually diverse with original ideas rather than making different app/version choices their key differences. "Just don't do what you can't really do well with reasonable ease, better just do the job which actually is yours".

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#24

Post by nor-and-or-not »

mpol wrote: post #13

Is Devuan still having a usecase? No offense, I am simply curious. Lately I see statements that you can use standard Debian and have it instaled without systemd. It won't be the default I assume, but how do Devuan and Debian (without systemd) compare nowadays?

Yes, apart from being systemd free per default, it is backed by a nice community.

Also Debian having the possibility of providing systemd alternatives now, doesn't guarantee that this will be so forever. My personal guess is that at one point, systemd will be the only de-facto working init for desktop systems on Debian.

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#26

Post by dsr_ »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #20
dathinab wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> independent projects? P you mean like flatpack and snap which also have the benefit of decoupling .so dependency management? or maybe like nix which you can run as a package manager on other dristros then NixOS?

Not really. I just meant that an OS team probably should only work on engineering and shipping the actual OS and should not dedicate a minute of their time to running a repository with Audacity or Wesnoth in it (I like and use both). Someone else should (as long as they feel interested).

You are describing the current state of Debian, just with multiple repos instead of one.

The DDs who work on, say, kernel packaging are not necessarily the same DDs who work on Wesnoth packaging.

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#27

Post by oneshtein »

lmm wrote: post #17
qwerty456127 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't we still have traditional repositories though? I personally dislike snaps and flatpaks because they usually are shipped with libarries hard-baked in rather than using separately-updatable libraries in the OS, using them also often means app duplication on per-user level and at least Snap didn't support Guest sessions (because of non-standard home directory path) the last time I checked.

If you don't want to use something like snap/flatpak then all the distributions using your PPA repository have to provide the same libraries packaged the same way, and at that point what are they going to even gain from being different distributions in the first place? If someone wanted to make a fork of Ubuntu but all the packages and contents are exactly the same as mainline Ubuntu then they'd just use Ubuntu.

Provide source packages. It works for hundred thousand of packages, so why your package is an exception?

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#28

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #23
CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that solve the issue of keeping repositories in a both well-tested and up-to-date state? It seems to me it would only make the problem worse because we'd have different, possibly incompatible or unmaintained PPAs

It would just let the OS engineers concentrate on the OS. Potentially making better OSes, maybe also more OSes to choose from, these being actually diverse with original ideas rather than making different app/version choices their key differences. "Just don't do what you can't really do well with reasonable ease, better just do the job which actually is yours".

An OS with missing and/or broken packages is not a better OS.

The OS engineers are usually not the ones maintaining Wesnoth, and if they are it's because they want to.

Re: Armbian and Devuan = Armvuan

#30

Post by 0xpgm »

nor-and-or-not wrote: post #25
ilyt wrote: post #19

I'm sure all six users of it will be happy

Does it matter how many users there are if the people who made it are happy with their work?

Especially if the 6 users are completely happy with it, then that is validation that it has a solid use-case. It means there are possibly many more who would use it, just that they've not heard about it yet.
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