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Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

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Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#21

Post by Propelloni »

MauranKilom wrote: post #13

Assuming there is no material misrepresentation of how this system operates, I would find it hard to argue that it is disproportionate to keep record of an IP address that somehow makes publicly available a file with copyrighted contents. I too would, from a pure self-interest perspective, like to share e.g. media with impunity, but for the sake of evaluating this opinion it's not reasonable to assume a position wher…

It is hard to argue against your position. TFA expounds that storing data required to prosecute a crime is proportionate. That sounds reasonable and hard to argue. In my eyes there are two points, however, that could be argued.

1) The data retention duration. France is holding some data sets for 13 years now without a charge forthcoming. I'm no expert on French law (or law in general) but it being a full-fledged liberal democracy with the rule-of-law, I guess there is some kind of a statute of limitation with regards to copyright infringement and I would find it hard to argue to keep the data beyond this point. Mind, the statute of limitations could be long-running (in Germany it usually is 30 years, unless the law says otherwise)

2) Seriousness of the crime. Under EU law data retention in the first place is only allowed in case of serious crimes. What is a serious crime? I think it arguable that copyright infringement is not a serious crime. To be not a serious crime it must fail to be a crime or to be serious. I think both positions can be argued, albeit being serious seems to be easier to unhinge.

But I'm not going to argue any of these ;)

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#22

Post by PrimeMcFly »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #19
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #7

The hypocrisy here is amusing. Interestingly also that piracy is de facto legal in many EU countries, at least as far as individuals downloading.

>piracy is de facto legal in many EU countries, at least as far as individuals downloading It's not legal, just the police in most countries have bigger fish to fry than people downloading mp3s and blu-ray rips. But, try pirating content in Germany and you're guarantee to receive an angry letter with a fine from some crooked law office, threatening to sue you on behalf of the IP holder if you don't pay the fine. It's…

> It's not legal

I said de facto legal. Emphasis on the de facto.

It differs in EU countries though, and I recall reading at least some explicitly won't take action against consumers downloading on a home internet connection.

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#23

Post by cccbbbaaa »

Propelloni wrote: post #21
MauranKilom wrote: post #13

Assuming there is no material misrepresentation of how this system operates, I would find it hard to argue that it is disproportionate to keep record of an IP address that somehow makes publicly available a file with copyrighted contents. I too would, from a pure self-interest perspective, like to share e.g. media with impunity, but for the sake of evaluating this opinion it's not reasonable to assume a position wher…

It is hard to argue against your position. TFA expounds that storing data required to prosecute a crime is proportionate. That sounds reasonable and hard to argue. In my eyes there are two points, however, that could be argued. 1) The data retention duration. France is holding some data sets for 13 years now without a charge forthcoming. I'm no expert on French law (or law in general) but it being a full-fledged libe…

Data connection retention is 1 year in France, not 13. This sounds like something related to taxes (eg. Invoices).

(Also, this law was ruled unconstitutional but shenanigans ensued.)

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#24

Post by 4ggr0 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #19
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #7

The hypocrisy here is amusing. Interestingly also that piracy is de facto legal in many EU countries, at least as far as individuals downloading.

>piracy is de facto legal in many EU countries, at least as far as individuals downloading It's not legal, just the police in most countries have bigger fish to fry than people downloading mp3s and blu-ray rips. But, try pirating content in Germany and you're guarantee to receive an angry letter with a fine from some crooked law office, threatening to sue you on behalf of the IP holder if you don't pay the fine. It's…

In Switzerland it's pretty legal :) Okay, they're not in the EU, but I guess it's still an example.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/intellectual-property_...

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#25

Post by HPsquared »

usrbinbash wrote: post #11
knallfrosch wrote: post #2

And I thought the "pirates" referred to armed people in boats capturing cargo ships, not copyright infringers.

It started as a scare tactic that goes back all the way to when people "pirated" music by recording radio on tape. The idea was to turn public opinion against copyright infringement by using terminology associated with violent crimes, such as piracy and robbery. Ofc it backfired spectacularly, with the "pirating" community adopting the term and reveling in it. Who could have known that using a term that the general p…

Reminds me of that photo of Winston Churchill with the Tommy Gun, the Germans tried to spin it as him bring a gangster but it just ended up looking "cool".

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/winston-churchill-tommy-gun...

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#26

Post by GTP »

Propelloni wrote: post #21
MauranKilom wrote: post #13

Assuming there is no material misrepresentation of how this system operates, I would find it hard to argue that it is disproportionate to keep record of an IP address that somehow makes publicly available a file with copyrighted contents. I too would, from a pure self-interest perspective, like to share e.g. media with impunity, but for the sake of evaluating this opinion it's not reasonable to assume a position wher…

It is hard to argue against your position. TFA expounds that storing data required to prosecute a crime is proportionate. That sounds reasonable and hard to argue. In my eyes there are two points, however, that could be argued. 1) The data retention duration. France is holding some data sets for 13 years now without a charge forthcoming. I'm no expert on French law (or law in general) but it being a full-fledged libe…

> To be not a serious crime it must fail to be a crime or to be serious. I think both positions can be argued, albeit being serious seems to be easier to unhinge..

AFAIK something qualifies as a crime if the law says you can get a jail sentence for it (and vice versa). So it's not something you can argue in favour or against, you just have to look at the current legislation. But you still got a point for the seriousness, since it's not a violent crime there's room for discussion here.

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#27

Post by [deleted] »

Propelloni wrote: post #21
MauranKilom wrote: post #13

Assuming there is no material misrepresentation of how this system operates, I would find it hard to argue that it is disproportionate to keep record of an IP address that somehow makes publicly available a file with copyrighted contents. I too would, from a pure self-interest perspective, like to share e.g. media with impunity, but for the sake of evaluating this opinion it's not reasonable to assume a position wher…

It is hard to argue against your position. TFA expounds that storing data required to prosecute a crime is proportionate. That sounds reasonable and hard to argue. In my eyes there are two points, however, that could be argued. 1) The data retention duration. France is holding some data sets for 13 years now without a charge forthcoming. I'm no expert on French law (or law in general) but it being a full-fledged libe…

[deleted]

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#28

Post by cf141q5325 »

Propelloni wrote: post #21
MauranKilom wrote: post #13

Assuming there is no material misrepresentation of how this system operates, I would find it hard to argue that it is disproportionate to keep record of an IP address that somehow makes publicly available a file with copyrighted contents. I too would, from a pure self-interest perspective, like to share e.g. media with impunity, but for the sake of evaluating this opinion it's not reasonable to assume a position wher…

It is hard to argue against your position. TFA expounds that storing data required to prosecute a crime is proportionate. That sounds reasonable and hard to argue. In my eyes there are two points, however, that could be argued. 1) The data retention duration. France is holding some data sets for 13 years now without a charge forthcoming. I'm no expert on French law (or law in general) but it being a full-fledged libe…

>Mind, the statute of limitations could be long-running (in Germany it usually is 30 years, unless the law says otherwise)

No https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations#Germany

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#29

Post by chongli »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #16
usrbinbash wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started as a scare tactic that goes back all the way to when people "pirated" music by recording radio on tape. The idea was to turn public opinion against copyright infringement by using terminology associated with violent crimes, such as piracy and robbery. Ofc it backfired spectacularly, with the "pirating" community adopting the term and reveling in it. Who could have known that using a term that the general p…

The use of "pirate" for copyright infringement goes back to at least the 19th century and was originally used of books. By the time taping off radio started, the term was already well entrenched.

This is especially weird because there’s another usage of pirate in the form of “pirate radio.” This refers to radio stations that broadcast illegally, without a license. They also have a kind of swashbuckling reputation!

Re: Disclosure of Pirates’ Identities “Compatible with EU Privacy Laws”

#30

Post by tetris11 »

chongli wrote: post #29
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of "pirate" for copyright infringement goes back to at least the 19th century and was originally used of books. By the time taping off radio started, the term was already well entrenched.

This is especially weird because there’s another usage of pirate in the form of “pirate radio.” This refers to radio stations that broadcast illegally, without a license. They also have a kind of swashbuckling reputation!

No doubt, Radio Caroline and Radio London both operated offshore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Caroline

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