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XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

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Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of mathematics and physics conference/journal publishing, there's a widespread perception that it's losing ground. In CS some conferences are slowly switching to Word, or offering an option to authors (who are slowly switching to Word, especially outside of theory-heavy areas). In book publishing it's shrunk to a very small niche, even in technical areas. Part of the problem is cruftiness of tools, and part i…

> In CS some conferences are slowly switching to Word, or offering an option to authors (who are slowly switching to Word, especially outside of theory-heavy areas). Huh? In my research areas (evolutionary computation, machine learning, artificial intelligence, multiagent systems, robotics) this isn't remotely true. CS conferences of almost all stripes have always offered non-LaTeX submission routes. But LaTeX domina…

It varies by sub-area, but artificial intelligence is also my area, and I don't see that dominance anymore, especially in the more interdisciplinary areas (anything that overlaps with HCI, psychology, cognitive science, etc.). I also don't see the stigma anymore among younger researchers; I detect that attitude from older people mostly, and some of the "harder core than thou" people in math-heavy sub-areas, but there's a bigger mix of preferences among people under 35 who work in less math-y areas. I use TeX myself when it's my choice, but I've collaborated on Word papers as well, if I wasn't the primary author/instigator, and it seems common/expected these days. Especially if someone from industry has been the instigator (e.g. on DARPA-contract type research), or if it's interdisciplinary with someone not from CS/math, they've preferred Word.

AAAI, IJCAI, and AAMAS now provide both options, and my informal observation is that more Word papers are being submitted than used to be the case, especially but not exclusively when it comes to authors from industry. CHI recently officially deprecated LaTeX as a supported option, but still provides the old (no longer maintained) stylesheets as a courtesy. Several universities (e.g. Georgia Tech) have also stopped officially supporting LaTeX stylesheets for theses and moved to Word as the only official option, though they do distribute student-edited LaTeX stylesheets as a courtesy. I assume that one's because nobody in the IT department knows how to edit the stylesheets. The unofficial GT thesis stylesheet is a hilarious example of copy/paste cruft, too, with bits taken from 20-year old U. Texas stylesheets and various other places.

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#22
XeTeX-generated PDFs are not compatible with the toolchains of some academic publishers (Cambridge University Press, which publishes the Journal of Functional Programming comes to mind, but I seem to recall Springer-Verlag having issues as well). Without full support for academic publishers, I believe that majority of TeX users could not upgrade.

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of mathematics and physics conference/journal publishing, there's a widespread perception that it's losing ground. In CS some conferences are slowly switching to Word, or offering an option to authors (who are slowly switching to Word, especially outside of theory-heavy areas). In book publishing it's shrunk to a very small niche, even in technical areas. Part of the problem is cruftiness of tools, and part i…

> even in technical areas. Really? What has it been replaced with?

At MIT Press they've moved to Word with the eXtyles plugin as their preferred manuscript/intermediary format, and InDesign for final layout. I'm not sure what precisely eXtyles does, but it appears to produce some kind of XML-based workflow that lets them retarget books to both InDesign and ebook formats, as well as process them through various scripts (e.g. for indexing).

They appear to still accept TeX manuscripts as a "not preferred" option, with their preferred approach to those being to convert them to Word+eXtyles ASAP, via some kind of processor they have. It looks like they still offer a full-TeX pipeline if authors insist, but it's deprecated and not done for most books anymore (and they won't produce ebook versions of your book if you choose this one).

More info on:

* The preferred pipeline: http://mitpress.mit.edu/authors/guidelines/monographs.asp#MS...

* The TeX options (I assume they put this information only in a Word .doc, when it's just plain text, out of a desire to taunt potential submitters of TeX manuscripts): http://mitpress.mit.edu/authors/guidelines/texscenarios.doc

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even in technical areas. Really? What has it been replaced with?

At MIT Press they've moved to Word with the eXtyles plugin as their preferred manuscript/intermediary format, and InDesign for final layout. I'm not sure what precisely eXtyles does, but it appears to produce some kind of XML-based workflow that lets them retarget books to both InDesign and ebook formats, as well as process them through various scripts (e.g. for indexing). They appear to still accept TeX manuscripts…

People consider Word a replacement for LaTeX for authoring books with equations? Seriously?

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#28
Tex, because it's author didn't care to reuse XML.

Having used it for publications and during the university i really, i despise Tex. Simply the language sucks, the outcome is nice, but those slashes and parenthesis really sucked.

With a XML syntax we could easily create beautiful editors, make it easy to parse with schema validation, etc.

Problem is that this card castle grew, avoiding alternatives such as docbook, and is and will always be a mess, since it's foundations are not parseable.

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At MIT Press they've moved to Word with the eXtyles plugin as their preferred manuscript/intermediary format, and InDesign for final layout. I'm not sure what precisely eXtyles does, but it appears to produce some kind of XML-based workflow that lets them retarget books to both InDesign and ebook formats, as well as process them through various scripts (e.g. for indexing). They appear to still accept TeX manuscripts…

People consider Word a replacement for LaTeX for authoring books with equations? Seriously?

If it's just equations (i.e. using no TeX features besides the $equation syntax$), that's what their conversion workflow is for. You can submit your manuscript in simple TeX and then they convert it to their preferred format with some scripts. I believe they'll also accept Markdown extended with TeX-syntax equations (not sure if that's official, but I know one author who submitted a Markdown manuscript w/ TeX equations... though he got the proof copies back as Word, post-conversion).

Re: XeTeX: could it be TeX's saviour?

#30

Tex, because it's author didn't care to reuse XML. Having used it for publications and during the university i really, i despise Tex. Simply the language sucks, the outcome is nice, but those slashes and parenthesis really sucked. With a XML syntax we could easily create beautiful editors, make it easy to parse with schema validation, etc. Problem is that this card castle grew, avoiding alternatives such as docbook,…

Doesn't Tex pre-date XML? If so, that would make it hard, even for Donald Knuth, to reuse a non-existent technology.
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