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The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

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Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#21

Post by skywal_l »

jethro_tell wrote: post #19
reaperman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the people who rise above their economic class lived in those zip codes. One way or another the family was able to get/live in a house they really couldnt afford and were far poorer than the others in that zip code but the children tended to do at least as well as their peers.

Yeah, it turns out that knowing people and knowing people who can tell you what you should be doing is pretty helpful. Additionally, high income neighborhoods tend to have access to things that aren't available to everyone. I have the shittiest house in the block but the PTA for my kids school pays 50% of the salary for the school councillor because the district only funds it as a part time gig. Then the robotics, pr…

But maybe you should also be able to live a stable and fulfilling life while being a factory worker or a tradesman. There was a time when that was possible. Not everybody can be a banker or a rocket scientist.

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#22

Post by marcus_holmes »

mortureb wrote: post #4

Immigrants prove that hard work really is still a predictor of success in the United States. However the system is definitely rigged.

I don't understand this.

I think you're saying that all hard-working immigrants succeed. But even I, as a non-American, have read stories of immigrants to the USA working 3 jobs and still struggling to pay the rent, let alone a mortgage.

Are they not working hard enough? If hard work alone was the predictor, why are there hard-working people struggling to pay for the most meagre of lifestyles?

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#23

Post by nextweek2 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #12
donor20 wrote: post #5

This feels like an ivory tower take. I worked at a job reentry program. The difference in outcomes between those working hard and those not looked pretty stark to me. Ignore the billionaires. Focus on what you can control.

One of the most financially rewarding career moves I've ever made was to give up the manual labor jobs I had as an field archaeologist and start focusing on "easier" tech jobs. Hard work is at best mildly correlated with financial rewards, though a 5 minute conversation with most workers would quickly disabuse you of even that notion.

I had a similar thought process in my teens, my dad was a building surveyor which was a very middle class job back in the day. But it dawned on me that there's only so many building you can walk in and look at in a day, limiting your upside potential.

It seems that you are paid for how many lives you affect (and to a lesser degree - by how much you affect them), rather than how much work you do.

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#24

Post by rajnathani »

With housing (/real estate) prices the way they are, and also where they’re headed, it is no surprise that the already wealthy (being real estate asset owners) have better capabilities with a head start in financial success than those starting out without or with less.

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#25

Post by kikimora »

nextweek2 wrote: post #23
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most financially rewarding career moves I've ever made was to give up the manual labor jobs I had as an field archaeologist and start focusing on "easier" tech jobs. Hard work is at best mildly correlated with financial rewards, though a 5 minute conversation with most workers would quickly disabuse you of even that notion.

I had a similar thought process in my teens, my dad was a building surveyor which was a very middle class job back in the day. But it dawned on me that there's only so many building you can walk in and look at in a day, limiting your upside potential. It seems that you are paid for how many lives you affect (and to a lesser degree - by how much you affect them), rather than how much work you do.

> It seems that you are paid for how many lives you affect (and to a lesser degree - by how much you affect them), rather than how much work you do.

This is brilliant observation!

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#26

Post by fuzzfactor »

Some of us have been watching the Fed for more decades than merely the most recent three.

>I spent more than three decades with the Federal Reserve System as an executive and as a widely cited research economist. My training was mainstream. I learned economics from leading scholars at Princeton and Harvard. As director of the research department at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, I attended dozens of the Fed’s monetary policymaking meetings—the Federal Open Market Committee meetings—in DC under each of the past five chairs, observing up close how the sausage is made. All of this was rewarding and fascinating.

So back then this was recognized long ago as part of the problem that would keep the Fed from performing in the best interest of most Americans. Even more fascinating in the 1970's and like everything else since then less rewarding to boot.

>Then, about 15 years ago, the Fed partnered with a host of institutions in midsized, postindustrial New England cities to figure out how to bring back economic vitality. I was fortunate to be involved in numerous in-person discussions with residents and leaders of these low-income, often majority-minority, communities. The more I learned about their lives, the more I became aware of gaps in mainstream economics.

With that kind of background, for the professionals inside the Fed it's not surprising for it to take 15 years before a more realistic picture can be made which reflects the outcome from a mainstream system which insidiously includes too much of a predatory component.

And this looks like one of the more open-minded, aware Fed economists.

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#28

Post by mortureb »

appplication wrote: post #9
mortureb wrote: post #4

Immigrants prove that hard work really is still a predictor of success in the United States. However the system is definitely rigged.

What does you mean by this? Many of the immigrants I know work much harder than me and still struggle to find their footing.

I guess I’m referring to Indian and Chinese immigrants who come here with pretty much nothing and then through sheer hard work manage to become the richest demographics in the country.

Re: The system is rigged and hard work is no predictor of success

#30

Post by jethro_tell »

skywal_l wrote: post #21
jethro_tell wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it turns out that knowing people and knowing people who can tell you what you should be doing is pretty helpful. Additionally, high income neighborhoods tend to have access to things that aren't available to everyone. I have the shittiest house in the block but the PTA for my kids school pays 50% of the salary for the school councillor because the district only funds it as a part time gig. Then the robotics, pr…

But maybe you should also be able to live a stable and fulfilling life while being a factory worker or a tradesman. There was a time when that was possible. Not everybody can be a banker or a rocket scientist.

Absolutely, I love building complex technical systems but I'm also an pretty kick ass carpenter and mechanic and I'd probably prefer that to carrying a pager if it was easy to raise a family in the city with either gig.

Even in the projects, getting good trades jobs is a problem, because you don't have that network.

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