What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers • Hacker News Board

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#21

Post by threeseed » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 8:54 AM UTC

DrDroop wrote: post #11

This is the reason why I am trying to move away from being a software engineer. I don't like to complain but it is honestly degrading how SE are treated in some places. I've been on teams with 4 project managers/analysts and 3 developers. They will expect you to do all the real hard work while they sit in meetings all day making UI mockups and architecture diagrams. There is just no way in winning this.

> They will expect you to do all the real hard work while they sit in meetings all day making UI mockups and architecture diagrams

You could also look at this the other way.

They are the ones doing the real hard work i.e. making tough decisions, dealing with stakeholders, incomplete and poorly conceived requirements whilst you just get to build what's written down on a page.

Everyone plays their role in companies and assume they are the indispensable ones.

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#22

Post by eddtests » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 8:56 AM UTC

beebmam wrote: post #6

l33t7332273 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the realities of capitalism is that people are not paid proportionally to how hard they work.

That's good, in fact. People should be compensated for the value they generate. Why should a fast food worker be compensated equivalently to a doctor or engineer? I do not want to live in a world where that could exist.

A manager at an In-N-Out burger restaurant makes more than most developers outside of Silicon Valley ($160000) - and tbh I don’t complain about that because I’ve seen the speed those guys put out burgers in Mountain View on a busy day!

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#23

Post by httpz » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 8:58 AM UTC

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #4

It’s kind of a miracle engineers are treated as well as we are compared to most traditional office jobs. IMO there’s probably a good reason for it, namely some institutional memory of when engineers would just defect en-masse and literally destroy your company if you pissed then off enough. But it also makes me a little sad that other white collar jobs don’t have the same benefits. There are probably a ton of jobs wh…

I'm very thankful to my high school self for choosing computer science. I feel lucky I happened to be interested in computers. If I was born 5 years earlier, I may have made a different choice.

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#24

Post by fragmede » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:05 AM UTC

foldr wrote: post #10

beebmam wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good, in fact. People should be compensated for the value they generate. Why should a fast food worker be compensated equivalently to a doctor or engineer? I do not want to live in a world where that could exist.

You are in a world where that can exist if you make international comparisons. There are some fast food workers earning more than some developers.

Bartending at the right bar is a six figure, semi-untaxed salary which is competitive with a jr swe salary.

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#25

Post by afpx » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:13 AM UTC

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #4

It’s kind of a miracle engineers are treated as well as we are compared to most traditional office jobs. IMO there’s probably a good reason for it, namely some institutional memory of when engineers would just defect en-masse and literally destroy your company if you pissed then off enough. But it also makes me a little sad that other white collar jobs don’t have the same benefits. There are probably a ton of jobs wh…

Supply and demand and the fact that their multi-billion dollar business depends on this small handful of people?

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#26

Post by FirmwareBurner » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:13 AM UTC

pydry wrote: post #18

l33t7332273 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the realities of capitalism is that people are not paid proportionally to how hard they work.

Or in proportion to how much value they create. They're paid in proportion to how much unique value they gatekeep. Hence why Silicon Valley's masters were so keen on everybody learning to code in primary school and getting more women into the profession. They dream of making us more of a commodity, so that as the chief gatekeepers of the tech economic engine, they get to keep a larger slice of the pie we create.

>Hence why Silicon Valley's masters were so keen on everybody learning to code in primary school and getting more women into the profession.

Why is it bad that more people learn to code? I see this as a net benefit to humanity. Why do you want to gate-keep it?

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#27

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:15 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #24

foldr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are in a world where that can exist if you make international comparisons. There are some fast food workers earning more than some developers.

Bartending at the right bar is a six figure, semi-untaxed salary which is competitive with a jr swe salary.

Not competitive because you still have to account for quality of life, working on site with no remote option, working evenings, nights, and weekends, general riskiness of being around drunk/high people, etc.

Of course you may not have had to study as hard, so your quality of life as a young person might have been better, but bartending is not secure income for life either.

Either way, the easiest way to look at it is, do parents tell their kids to aspire to become bartenders?

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#28

Post by omscs99 » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #4

It’s kind of a miracle engineers are treated as well as we are compared to most traditional office jobs. IMO there’s probably a good reason for it, namely some institutional memory of when engineers would just defect en-masse and literally destroy your company if you pissed then off enough. But it also makes me a little sad that other white collar jobs don’t have the same benefits. There are probably a ton of jobs wh…

> It’s kind of a miracle engineers are treated as well as we are compared to most traditional office jobs.

Other office jobs are treated better. They don’t get pinged at random times outside of business hours. They don’t have to attend late night meetings because of foreign time zone

I know a bunch of AWS people and have heard worse things from them

Frankly, I love programming but would rather have a regular office job. This industry is predatory

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#29

Post by Glawen » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:29 AM UTC

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #4

It’s kind of a miracle engineers are treated as well as we are compared to most traditional office jobs. IMO there’s probably a good reason for it, namely some institutional memory of when engineers would just defect en-masse and literally destroy your company if you pissed then off enough. But it also makes me a little sad that other white collar jobs don’t have the same benefits. There are probably a ton of jobs wh…

> institutional memory of when engineers would just defect en-masse and literally destroy your company if you pissed then off enough.

Got some good examples?

Re: What Silicon Valley “gets” about software engineers

#30

Post by sentimentscan » Sun, Sep 17, 2023, 9:33 AM UTC

At (traditional) this is causing me to develop feature and then throw it again and then implement it again slightly differently because someone said something in the chain without thinking and sometimes to fight with management teams for doing something insane. And in one case why throwed out 3,5 months of development work, because some exec was mistaken.

But at (SV startup company) this caused at least for my team complete chaos, what should we do, who should be doing the integration, talking to customers, why are we doing this.

Usually at SV startup company I was like 2-4 times more productive, but often output of my work wasn't really significant, as in traditional company so small dumb feature was raking in money and really improved large customer base.