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Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

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Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#21

Post by [deleted] »

Nicholas_C wrote: post #8
mmaunder wrote: post #6

I’ve been doing O2 and CO2 “tables” which are breath hold exercises for free diving. For co2 you hold for 2 mins, breathe for 2, hold for 2, breathe for 1:45, hold for 2, breathe for 1:30 and keep reducing the breathing until you’re at 15 seconds. It’s getting you used to co2 building up. Much more to it than that but the feeling during and after is incredible. Been doing yoga for 6 years and never had a feeling of c…

+1 for Stamina, I use this app for apnea training for surfing. Wim Hof also produces a similar calming feeling, there are some good guided Wim Hof videos on youtube that are easy to follow.

[deleted]

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#22

Post by Baeocystin »

mmaunder wrote: post #6

I’ve been doing O2 and CO2 “tables” which are breath hold exercises for free diving. For co2 you hold for 2 mins, breathe for 2, hold for 2, breathe for 1:45, hold for 2, breathe for 1:30 and keep reducing the breathing until you’re at 15 seconds. It’s getting you used to co2 building up. Much more to it than that but the feeling during and after is incredible. Been doing yoga for 6 years and never had a feeling of c…

So, this might be a stupid question. I am asking it honestly, though.

Speaking as someone who has sleep apnea, my doctors have really hammered home how bad apnea events are for my general health. Does that not apply to this kind of training?

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#23

Post by m3kw9 »

mmaunder wrote: post #6

I’ve been doing O2 and CO2 “tables” which are breath hold exercises for free diving. For co2 you hold for 2 mins, breathe for 2, hold for 2, breathe for 1:45, hold for 2, breathe for 1:30 and keep reducing the breathing until you’re at 15 seconds. It’s getting you used to co2 building up. Much more to it than that but the feeling during and after is incredible. Been doing yoga for 6 years and never had a feeling of c…

It’s probably your brain about to tap out but you have this dizzy feeling of being “calm”

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#24

Post by Daishiman »

Baeocystin wrote: post #22
mmaunder wrote: post #6

I’ve been doing O2 and CO2 “tables” which are breath hold exercises for free diving. For co2 you hold for 2 mins, breathe for 2, hold for 2, breathe for 1:45, hold for 2, breathe for 1:30 and keep reducing the breathing until you’re at 15 seconds. It’s getting you used to co2 building up. Much more to it than that but the feeling during and after is incredible. Been doing yoga for 6 years and never had a feeling of c…

So, this might be a stupid question. I am asking it honestly, though. Speaking as someone who has sleep apnea, my doctors have really hammered home how bad apnea events are for my general health. Does that not apply to this kind of training?

Apnea is bad because it kills long deep REM cycles that are essential for your body’s recovery.

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#25

Post by [deleted] »

heyjamesknight wrote: post #13
tqi wrote: post #7

Is the estimated effect size (g=-0.35) -35%? That feels a bit high to me.

Cohen's d and Hedges' g shouldn't be interpreted as the size of the change in scores, but rather how the distribution is shifted. A score of .35 is considered a "low to moderate" effect. https://rpsychologist.com/cohend/

[deleted]

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#27

Post by meristohm »

CretinDesAlpes wrote: post #18

Anybody has done breathwork naturally without even knowing about its existence? I didn't know any of this (had 0 interest in the body/yoga/meditation before) and I used to do this pattern of deeply inhaling slowly and holding until I can't really anymore, then slowly exhaling. Then repeating for a few times. Very relaxing. Although I know about breathwork a bit more now and the different patterns, I am not sure if th…

I've been aware of breathwork since I was a teenager, but I always look for easy actions, with low barriers:

Watching my resting dog breathe I noticed he inhaled slowly and exhaled without much apparent control, just relaxing and letting it all huff out, then pausing awhile before the next inhalation; I tried this, it feels good, so I keep doing it when I want to feel more calm.

From reading Breath, by James Nestor, I learned that a good target for calm-inducing breathing is about eleven seconds for an inhale/exhale pair, common with many religious activities like chants, etc. Breathing like my dog, I aim for five seconds in, ~three out (not counting, just letting it out), and as long a pause as feels right, sometimes pushing myself a little to extend.

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#28

Post by Madmallard »

bart_spoon wrote: post #14

So the results from all studies are based on self-reported stress, studies may include other non-breathing related interventions, the breathwork intervention can comprise any number of kinds of breathwork, and authors themselves conclude that the studies included are at a “moderate” risk of bias? Seems hard to say anything substantive about the conclusions when the inputs are that shaky.

[flagged]

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#29

Post by balfirevic »

nhumrich wrote: post #4
Havoc wrote: post #2

Papers should really come with a “jump to discussion/result” link

Its called the abstract. And its the first section of every official paper. Right at the end of the abstract: > Overall, results showed that breathwork may be effective for improving stress and mental health. However, we urge caution and advocate for nuanced research approaches with low risk-of-bias study designs to avoid a miscalibration between hype and evidence.

> However, we urge caution and advocate for nuanced research approaches with low risk-of-bias study designs to avoid a miscalibration between hype and evidence.

It's interesting to think about the information conveyed by this sentence.

Would anyone seriously propose non-nuanced research approach with high risk of bias that easily confuses hype for evidence?

Re: Effect of breathwork on stress and mental health: A meta-analysis of RCTs

#30

Post by tiffanyg »

Daishiman wrote: post #24
Baeocystin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this might be a stupid question. I am asking it honestly, though. Speaking as someone who has sleep apnea, my doctors have really hammered home how bad apnea events are for my general health. Does that not apply to this kind of training?

Apnea is bad because it kills long deep REM cycles that are essential for your body’s recovery.

This is fundamentally the problem.

To expand / clarify slightly: REM sleep is absolutely essential to "higher animals". It is not, though, "deep sleep" in the sense that "long slow delta wave" sleep is often called "deep sleep", and the "NREM" stages of sleep tend to be "deeper" (in the sense of physiology 'slower' / harder to awaken) than REM sleep.

This Wikipedia article could use some editing, at least for clarity, but is certainly a solid enough reference and starting point for further reading (for anyone interested): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_cycle

Apnea is incredibly stressful on the body / mind. Disruption before REACHING REM sleep (one of the reasons REM may be referred to as "deep sleep" in non-technical language) is among the worst of the effects. Since most of a single cycle is NOT REM sleep but rather stages occurring before REM, REM is a phase most often prevented by episodes of apnea. But, the physiological stress also relates to disruption of other phases as well.

Besides sometimes profound effects on cognitive function varying over days and weeks depending on the severity / frequency of "apneic events", the stresses that accumulate over time tend to cause cardiovascular problems, especially.

As usual, sites like Cleveland Clinic's and Mayo Clinic's etc. give good info (short of the more technical scientific review articles you can search for on PubMed, for example). Cleveland Clinic's seems quite good to me (perhaps a bit better in clarity regarding phases of sleep than the Wikipedia article, as well):

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/8718-sleep-ap...

Edit: you wrote "long deep REM cycles" - that's a reasonable phrasing and would also 'frame' effects overall. So, if it's unclear from my writing (ha, write after I 'dinged' a Wikipedia article), there is no conflict (depending on exactly how one reads these messages, of course) between my message and the parent. To clarify, it was not my intention to come off that way (but I see that certain emphases might suggest that, apologies if it reads that way to some!)

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