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We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

turingcollege.blogspot.com

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#21

I'm not sure I follow. Am I supposed to pay $10k for an online course that I know little about their reputation, with no free trial nor guarantee from existing businesses that they actually value your certification? It's hard to imagine how you'd get early adopters to get traction. I think you're looking at it wrong. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to universities. Don't compare your prices, duration and accredit…

I'd actually focus more on reputation for delivering results than accreditation. Accreditation is a massive bureaucratic nightmare and I'm not sure it's worth it. For access to Title IV, maybe, but it's going to seriously cost you in other ways, slowing you down on a 1000 fronts. I don't think you can beat the current universities by playing the game by the rules they've set up to manage their competition. Just seems…

We actually have to focus on results first and foremost. By the time we can even apply for accreditation (probably 3 years out) the issue of accreditation for reputation will be moot.

But, you have to look at what the larger impact can be with accreditation and Title IV. Even though we are strongly against student loans, being able to work with state and federal governments for grant and work study funds is the best and most direct way we have at hitting "free education for all" status. It's also the quickest way to move out of the relatively small group of students who don't care about accreditation to reach the much larger group that does. It's only by being a reasonable alternative to this group of students that we can apply real pressure to the current system. As long as we aren't accredited, the existing institutions can simply point to that fact and write us off and most people will listen to them.

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#22

I'm not sure I follow. Am I supposed to pay $10k for an online course that I know little about their reputation, with no free trial nor guarantee from existing businesses that they actually value your certification? It's hard to imagine how you'd get early adopters to get traction. I think you're looking at it wrong. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to universities. Don't compare your prices, duration and accredit…

I'd actually focus more on reputation for delivering results than accreditation. Accreditation is a massive bureaucratic nightmare and I'm not sure it's worth it. For access to Title IV, maybe, but it's going to seriously cost you in other ways, slowing you down on a 1000 fronts. I don't think you can beat the current universities by playing the game by the rules they've set up to manage their competition. Just seems…

[deleted]

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#23
It doesn't quite meet your criteria for start today, but the Open University, a well respected "virtual uni", has been running in the UK for over 40 years.

http://www.open.ac.uk/

Fees are a little higher but only marginally at around $8000 per 120 credits for international students. (A typical degree requires 300-360 credits)

Many degrees can be completed over 7 or more years if it's convenient. But I think there is a minimum time as some coursework is assessed to a schedule.

So there is definitely a market for this type of learning, and competition almost always benefits the customer, so good luck!

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#24
post #14

I believe most of the new-model online/for-profit universities actually had to buy older universities to get their accreditation. So I doubt that "play[ing] their game better than they do" by pursuing traditional accreditation is really the disruptive strategy here. Blow up the whole rotten credentialist system and replace it with something very different. (A meta-credentialing service might be a neat startup. With a…

I agree - very hard to start a (long-course) educational institution without first establishing the credibility (in the actual industry, not to the govt.) of the certificate you get at the end of it.

What a system like this really needs is a strong way for future employers of graduates to rate their relative ability (eg. 'according to our benchmarks this person's ability in python lies _x_ far between the average coder on github and [insert famous python user here]').

Perhaps establishing 'credentialing' should come before establishing a school?

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#25

I'm not sure I follow. Am I supposed to pay $10k for an online course that I know little about their reputation, with no free trial nor guarantee from existing businesses that they actually value your certification? It's hard to imagine how you'd get early adopters to get traction. I think you're looking at it wrong. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to universities. Don't compare your prices, duration and accredit…

Well, the courses start at $200, we have a generous refund policy, and you can actually try the system and class out for free right now with a guest account. We don't even require a real email.

Also, we have thought very seriously about the business model of offering classes for free (Udacity model) and charging for certification/one on one. The numbers we see for that model just don't work, even at a large scale. You have to focus in introductory classes with the broadest possible appeal, reduce the difficulty of the course so you don't get 10,000 complaint emails from students who can't keep up, use a MOOC structure that is more about cost control than maximizing learning. Plus, the conversion from free to paid user may or may not be enough to cover the cost of course development. Our model, on the other hand, allows us to pay our professors quite generously for classes that may not have 100,000 students attending and focus more on building our catalog instead of just building the user base.

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#27
post #14

I believe most of the new-model online/for-profit universities actually had to buy older universities to get their accreditation. So I doubt that "play[ing] their game better than they do" by pursuing traditional accreditation is really the disruptive strategy here. Blow up the whole rotten credentialist system and replace it with something very different. (A meta-credentialing service might be a neat startup. With a…

I agree - very hard to start a (long-course) educational institution without first establishing the credibility (in the actual industry, not to the govt.) of the certificate you get at the end of it. What a system like this really needs is a strong way for future employers of graduates to rate their relative ability (eg. 'according to our benchmarks this person's ability in python lies _x_ far between the average cod…

You would think so, but we actually can't even apply for regional accreditation until the first student graduates from a full degree program.

Yes, the system is rigged against new entrants.

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#28
post #14

I believe most of the new-model online/for-profit universities actually had to buy older universities to get their accreditation. So I doubt that "play[ing] their game better than they do" by pursuing traditional accreditation is really the disruptive strategy here. Blow up the whole rotten credentialist system and replace it with something very different. (A meta-credentialing service might be a neat startup. With a…

The optimal ecosystem in my mind would be one where the institutions offering accreditation are completely independent from the ones offering teaching. Aside from the obvious "division of labor is a good thing" argument, it would open up all sorts of possibilities:

- Ability to take courses from multiple "universities". This will provide an incentive for "universities" to compete on a course by course level.

- The burden of trust will mainly shift to the "accreditator" side, making it easier to open up new "universities" without prior reputation. Of course, they will still have to convince prospective students that their courses are good.

- For companies: ability to compare prospective employees credentials in a more objective way. There will presumably only be a few "accreditation" companies unlike the current large amount of universities in the world.

The only downside I can think of is that the accreditation institutions might not be testing what the universities want to teach or what the students want to learn. Also, universities/student might optimize for passing the exams rather than learning. Is that much different from the status quo though?

It might be too early, but it might give some ideas for a startup.

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#29
Just-in-time learning is the future. No ifs, ands, or buts. Any argument you might have to the contrary is not only wrong, but dangerously wrong ... The current system of teaching students everything they might need to know, just in case it ever comes up, is an artificial construct that resulted from limited access to books and a limited amount of time available for study. Just in time, on the other hand, is how we actually learn by default.

This is an interesting point. I happen to disagree, and I hoped that the author would go on to say exactly why it's wrong, especially dangerously so. It seems like the author rejects curriculum-based courses of study that provide a broad, solid foundation in favor of just-in-time courses of study, in which one learns whatever is necessary at the moment, right before applying it.

My main objections are that

* There are things you don't feel like learning that you would do well to learn. I had a lot of freedom to choose courses during school, which was great, but I am about to graduate with a lot of holes in my knowledge.

* No matter how smart you are, you would benefit from the guidance of a teacher --- guidance through a full curriculum that gives you a solid foundation and imparts onto you important patterns of thought.

Re: We’re #3 on Paul Graham’s Frighteningly Ambitious Idea List

#30

That's really cool. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to drop $400 for an online course of unknown quality, with uncertainty about accredidation, when coursera is free. How do you plan to attract your initial users?

The best way we can attract our first users is with having a course that is so valuable for our students that accreditation concerns become secondary. In this case, if you are looking for a high level class in Web App for Mobile, you probably will never find it in the coursera, mitx, udacity or khan catalogs. They have no interest or incentive to put that sort of course together.

If you look at the value proposition for a student, our web app class is extremely high. The material covered in that class can have a direct impact on job prospects, billing rates, or internal promotion opportunities, and it is such a difficult area to self teach that saving tens or hundreds of hours fighting though online tutorials is well worth the $200 or $400 that the class costs.

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