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Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#21

Post by xkcd-sucks »

0xfae wrote: post #10
dav_Oz wrote: post #7

While Japan is the most obvious "Guess culture" for Westerners. My favourite example of a "Guess culture" is that of Iranian taarof[0]: Another example occurs if a Western individual is not familiar with taarof in Iranian culture. When an Iranian individual is offering taarof, it is to first view it as a sincere offer with the hope of decline up to four or five times. If the individual offers more than five times, it…

As someone who grew up in America (typically ask culture) but also grew up in a very guess culture family, subculture and religion (Utah Mormons), this seems insane to me. I grew up guess culture so I understand it, but ask culture is so much clearer/concise/kinder in my opinion. Less likely to be misunderstood and build resentment, etc. The wikipedia article states the "Taarof is a ritual politeness that levels the…

Just a guess, but maybe it allows poor people to extend offers of hospitality they can't possibly fulfill and thereby save some face?

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#22

Post by ics »

corobo wrote: post #11

I wonder if there's any correlation, causation, whatever, between the guesser segment of the population and socially disrupting mental disorders. Autism, ADHD, etc. Giving it a quick think with the people I know (given that I don't know the mental health status of people without diagnoses) it's an almost perfect split. A secondary wonder comes in due to the theory of mind deficit that can come with those disorders -…

Many variables indeed but it's an interesting thought to consider. In my experience friends and relatives with autism are hard askers and those with diagnosed ADHD/OCD/related are all guessers without exception.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#23

Post by varjag »

0xfae wrote: post #10
dav_Oz wrote: post #7

While Japan is the most obvious "Guess culture" for Westerners. My favourite example of a "Guess culture" is that of Iranian taarof[0]: Another example occurs if a Western individual is not familiar with taarof in Iranian culture. When an Iranian individual is offering taarof, it is to first view it as a sincere offer with the hope of decline up to four or five times. If the individual offers more than five times, it…

As someone who grew up in America (typically ask culture) but also grew up in a very guess culture family, subculture and religion (Utah Mormons), this seems insane to me. I grew up guess culture so I understand it, but ask culture is so much clearer/concise/kinder in my opinion. Less likely to be misunderstood and build resentment, etc. The wikipedia article states the "Taarof is a ritual politeness that levels the…

Gift cultures (as subset of honor cultures in general) are there to build a cobweb of mutual favours that cement the society. An important function in the absence of modern rule of law.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#24

Post by jagged-chisel »

k__ wrote: post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Similar here.

People still get annoyed when I ask. Dude, I’m just trying to save time. You can say “I don’t know” and I’ll go read. You don’t have to talk in circles, you don’t have the make something up (that will often be wrong), just admit the truth.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#25

Post by acatnamedjoe »

k__ wrote: post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Did you also guess what the article was about based on just the title?

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#26

Post by chankstein38 »

k__ wrote: post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Same. I have had it get me in trouble before because I was described as "developing like a gopher" where I disappear into a hole for _x_ time and then pop out with a bunch of questions or the entire ask completed without any input and both of those things tended to be negative as well.

I'm not sure how to handle it sometimes. It seems like asking too many questions can get me judged and potentially make people see me as stupid. But trying to figure it out myself rubs people the wrong way too..

It feels like the solution is some magic that makes everyone stop trying to make assumptions instead of just clarifying things but obviously that's a pipe dream.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#27

Post by mgaunard »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #24
k__ wrote: post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Similar here. People still get annoyed when I ask. Dude, I’m just trying to save time. You can say “I don’t know” and I’ll go read. You don’t have to talk in circles, you don’t have the make something up (that will often be wrong), just admit the truth.

You should do your own research before disrupting others. It's basic politeness.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#28

Post by ragingrobot »

timeagain wrote: post #6

The article discusses how agonizing it must be for a guesser when they have to say no to something. But something I have been dealing with recently is actually the reverse—the resentment a guesser feels when told “no”. Because in their mind, they have done the math and think they have correctly deduced they should receive a “yes”. Forthwrmore, since they don’t like saying “no”, they project this on their rejector and…

> Why would you presume you know what I want?

I'm in the same boat as k__ above. Some have been indoctrinated into an "asking is wrong" culture.

On my job, if you ask:

* You're given a rude response. * You're treated like an idiot. * You're told you're wasting the other person's time.

and many other less than ideal responses.

Given these reactions enough, one can get tired of it (or angry, or ashamed depending on your personality), and just begin to avoid the situation entirely by guessing.

Then of course when you guess wrong, see the above points.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#29

Post by chankstein38 »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #24
k__ wrote: post #20

I guess. I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues. And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone. Why? When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't kno…

Similar here. People still get annoyed when I ask. Dude, I’m just trying to save time. You can say “I don’t know” and I’ll go read. You don’t have to talk in circles, you don’t have the make something up (that will often be wrong), just admit the truth.

Right? I hate when I ask someone something and their response is to go way overboard in answering. "Do you have time for a 30min video call to talk about it?" kinds of things. I mean, obviously it's appreciated but if you don't know (just say so) or if it's that massive just point me at an article or a nice reference pull request or something.

Re: Are you an Asker or a Guesser? (2010)

#30

Post by chankstein38 »

ycombinete wrote: post #13
dav_Oz wrote: post #7

While Japan is the most obvious "Guess culture" for Westerners. My favourite example of a "Guess culture" is that of Iranian taarof[0]: Another example occurs if a Western individual is not familiar with taarof in Iranian culture. When an Iranian individual is offering taarof, it is to first view it as a sincere offer with the hope of decline up to four or five times. If the individual offers more than five times, it…

This is common throughout the Middle East. Along with things like sincerely fighting to pay for the bill when going out to eat with friends. It becomes part of the social game, and can be quite fun to take part in We move you start to understand the rules. But is confusing at hell if you’ve arrived from an Anglo culture.

Calling paying for a bill "quite fun to take part in" made me chuckle. I'd rather play the game where someone else ends up paying because they put that much thought into it. If I'm treating someone I'll happily pay but if I'm at a restaurant with a bunch of people and someone is making it their mission to pay for my meal, I'm not going to fight it!
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