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"Lighten up"

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Re: "Lighten up"

#21

Post by aklemm »

Do you think reaching some critical mass of female developers (say 20%) will help prevent the problem? Perhaps an industry goal of reaching 20% female developers would be worthwhile (who would set such a goal?)

These problems also exist in the boardroom and some have pointed out that it takes 3 women at the table in order for the rest of the room to treat them fairly. If it's just one, she's sidelined. If it's two, then they're seen as just teaming up with each other, but three makes them legitimate in the eyes of the rest of the group. Perhaps larger groups of developers can make sure to have at least 3 women on the team to help eliminate issues.

Re: "Lighten up"

#22

Post by daenz »

Hang in there. The norms are always transitioning, so someone is always getting "the shaft" (hopefully that won't come across as sexist :) And unfortunately, when you can't change everyone's "natural" behavior, the next healthiest choice is to grow thicker skin.

EDIT>> I'm not saying that it's ok she's treated like this, but you can't change everyones behavior. It takes lifetimes. In the meantime, if you want to have a healthy mind and continue to be around that kind of behavior, you have to grow a thicker skin.

Re: "Lighten up"

#23

Post by omgsean »

crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

If you don't know how to avoid crossing the line you shouldn't be joking around. The onus is on you, the joke maker, to have a basic understanding of your audience as well as your privileges in society.

Re: "Lighten up"

#25

Post by VMG »

crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

Banter should be mutual. This extends to males as well. If your "witty remarks" aren't reciprocated, stop.

Re: "Lighten up"

#26

Post by pingswept »

crusso wrote: post #13

@kcunning - How do you contrast your desire to have a perfectly professional relationship with everyone you work with vs a desire to enjoy an office environment where you can joke around and have fun? While I understand your answer may well be, "Leave the jokes at home, Mr. Colbert. I'm here to code and make a paycheck." I would be sad if my relationship with my coworkers couldn't handle, let alone thrive upon, humor…

Do you think there's a conflict between sexism and fun? As in, "Well, I'd like to stop making sexist jokes, but then it would be so boring here."

I would rather work in an office where the jokes are of the funny sort, rather than the makes-one-person-feel-miserable sort. I really don't think there's any overlap between funny jokes and sexist jokes.

Re: "Lighten up"

#27

Post by maukdaddy »

MattRogish wrote: post #18
maukdaddy wrote: post #12

This just makes me sad for the industry as a whole. Unbelievable that in today's world women have to put up with this. Guys, want to know how you can help change these kinds of attitudes? When you see/hear another guy make these kinds of comments, pull them aside and have a talk. Maybe it's a gentle reminder of how hurtful and counterproductive these kinds of attitudes are, or maybe it's a forceful "I never want to h…

I think it has to be immediate and public. That doesn't mean severe or disrespectful. Everyone has to do it, but it certainly should be set up from the top down that this is unacceptable and will stop. I take a page from the Results Only Work Environment: http://www.rowe.iambestbuy.com/sludge_busting.html

Immediate and public is certainly the best approach, although it might depend on the environment, who is present, etc. Sometimes a conversation in private might be better.

You are exactly correct in regards to top down. A leader, manager, boss, etc. should immediately send the message that inappropriate behavior is not tolerated.

Re: "Lighten up"

#29

Post by moxiemk1 »

blake8086 wrote: post #17
kcunning wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Awareness. 2. You'd be shocked how much better my environment would be if, when I expressed concern about something, I was not told to 'lighten up', but if my concern was treated as valid.

I feel that awareness will be difficult. I think the people who pay attention to things like your blog post are the people who are already sympathetic. It's like if you wrote a guide about "How To Not Be An Asshole", assholes would probably not read it.

Perhaps, but if we can continue to make it known that inappropriate behavior is unacceptable, it will be impossible for them to miss the signs.

Women shouldn't have be the only ones calling out their peers for making othering comments - everyone can do that.

Re: "Lighten up"

#30

Post by tptacek »

[deleted] wrote: post #28

[deleted]

This comment makes you sound like you're 12 years old. The goal is not to get back at people. The onus isn't on her. She's the victim, not the problem.
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