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Stop Brogramming

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Re: Stop Brogramming

#21

Post by batista »

What exactly is sexism? Behaving as sexes DO exist, and, for example, men can like the look of certain females? Well, sexes DO exist, and men do like the look of certain females. To state otherwise would be hypocrisy.

And it's not like liking women or wanting to go to a bar that has pretty waitresses (and vice versa for women) if somehow taking advantage of the other sex. No more than wanting to go to a concert is taking advantage of people with nice voices and musical skills.

So, are we disallowing sexual desire and/or lust? If not, we are just advocating hypocrisy. I.e think it, but don't say/act as if you think it.

Seems to my European mind that Americans will be puritans whatever their political inclinations are. If they are of the Bible inclination (Bible belt etc), they will be all serious, sex is evil, abolish sexy looks, etc.

If they are of the liberal inclination (democrats etc), they will be all serious, sex is insulting, sexual references show intolerance and or exploitation, we should hide sexuality when in polite/professional company, etc.

Once a puritan, always a puritan.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#22

Post by andrewvc »

LaGrange wrote: post #13
andrewvc wrote: post #8

This is proof that all you need to get up the front page on HN is a title that matches the current zeitgeist. The article itself is terrible, making mountains out of molehills. I'm someone who'd never even be confused as a brogrammer, but someone explain to me what's negative about this "Drinking beer, lifting weights, picking up women, and kicking out a new JSON parser before dinner. ". That actually sounds like a d…

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices. "overly-P.C buzzkill" Aw. Someone ruined making fun of women for you.

If you want to divine whole worlds of phantom meanings from innocuous phrases I'd recommend picking up PoMo lit-crit as a hobby, it's where such speculation belongs.

For the record, I hardly view women as 'pleasure devices', and "picking up" is such a common phrase in the english language that to divine from that someone's entire attitude toward present gender issues is disingenuous.

As a community with a genuine gender disparity I think it's great that we've latched on to these issues. However, comments like LaGrange's, and the sibling in this thread are just as much a threat in their distraction from real issues.

There's a difference between opposing genuinely oppressive language and going on a linguistic witch hunt. Going after a phrase like 'pick up' (something girls do with guys as well by the way), is in the same hyperbolic category as the ill fated attempts to change the word women to womyn.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#23

Post by stevvooe »

angersock wrote: post #16
LaGrange wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices. "overly-P.C buzzkill" Aw. Someone ruined making fun of women for you.

women certainly arent picking up men at hackathons (because all programmers are big fat neckbeards and brogrammers are gigantic hunks of meat) (that is the joke you see)

I have had it with these beardist remarks.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#24

Post by scarmig »

batista wrote: post #21

What exactly is sexism? Behaving as sexes DO exist, and, for example, men can like the look of certain females? Well, sexes DO exist, and men do like the look of certain females. To state otherwise would be hypocrisy. And it's not like liking women or wanting to go to a bar that has pretty waitresses (and vice versa for women) if somehow taking advantage of the other sex. No more than wanting to go to a concert is ta…

Yes, being upset at someone emphasizing that there will be women around to serve you beers is tantamount to disallowing sexual desire. It's totally like 1984.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#25

Post by untog »

ArtB wrote: post #15
LaGrange wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices. "overly-P.C buzzkill" Aw. Someone ruined making fun of women for you.

Sorry, but what exactly is sexist about trying to get laid? Not trolling, or sarcastic. It honestly seemed like an event that tried to combine the things that a certain demographic of people like to do into one event. I don't see how different this is from a Sushi buffet-dubstep-LAN event. If it was a networking conference for high-powered female C*Os and they were advertising that the waiter's were all young buff me…

Sorry, but what exactly is sexist about trying to get laid?

Nothing. The hilarious image of a bunch of brogrammers hitting on their waitresses aside, the issue is that the event effectively excluded women programmers- or at least made it clear that they weren't wanted. Perhaps if the flyer boasted "hot chicks and buff dudes serving you drinks" it might be a little more equal. Horrifying, but equal.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#26

Post by calinet6 »

andrewvc wrote: post #8

This is proof that all you need to get up the front page on HN is a title that matches the current zeitgeist. The article itself is terrible, making mountains out of molehills. I'm someone who'd never even be confused as a brogrammer, but someone explain to me what's negative about this "Drinking beer, lifting weights, picking up women, and kicking out a new JSON parser before dinner. ". That actually sounds like a d…

Even so, when I saw the event and its pathetic attempt to appeal to get some free work done for sponsors, it set off more than one red flag. It wasn't so much the PC-ness as the poor marketing that turned me off.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#27

Post by batista »

LaGrange wrote: post #13
andrewvc wrote: post #8

This is proof that all you need to get up the front page on HN is a title that matches the current zeitgeist. The article itself is terrible, making mountains out of molehills. I'm someone who'd never even be confused as a brogrammer, but someone explain to me what's negative about this "Drinking beer, lifting weights, picking up women, and kicking out a new JSON parser before dinner. ". That actually sounds like a d…

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices. "overly-P.C buzzkill" Aw. Someone ruined making fun of women for you.

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices.

Really? Because, humans sometimes just want to pick up some other human (of the different or even the same sex) and JUST have pleasure with each other bodies. They don't want to marry, and they don't want to discuss Russian Literature. They don't even intent to date, they JUST want to fuck each other's brains out. We call this "picking up". Sometimes, it even turns to a proper romance, sometimes it's just an one night stand.

Now, somehow this is bad, because?

Re: Stop Brogramming

#29

Post by batista »

ArtB wrote: post #15
LaGrange wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"picking up women" This is what's wrong with this. I mean, I do know it's a pretty good day for a chauvinistic dude, but that's objectification of women as pleasure devices. "overly-P.C buzzkill" Aw. Someone ruined making fun of women for you.

Sorry, but what exactly is sexist about trying to get laid? Not trolling, or sarcastic. It honestly seemed like an event that tried to combine the things that a certain demographic of people like to do into one event. I don't see how different this is from a Sushi buffet-dubstep-LAN event. If it was a networking conference for high-powered female C*Os and they were advertising that the waiter's were all young buff me…

the issue is that the event effectively excluded women programmers- or at least made it clear that they weren't wanted.

OK, and that is an issue because?

Can't one just make an event with a SPECIFIC target audience in mind? Especially, if, hypocrisy aside, the audience was gonna be male populated anyway, even if a semi-naked Brad Pitt served drinks.

Perhaps if the flyer boasted "hot chicks and buff dudes serving you drinks" it might be a little more equal. Horrifying, but equal.

And when does that need for "equality" stop when planning a SPECIFIC event? Even if they did what you suggest, someone could come and say: "this event is terrible, it excludes gays by having hetero male and female servers, we also need hot gay guys serving drinks". And then lesbians.

Re: Stop Brogramming

#30

Post by batista »

scarmig wrote: post #24
batista wrote: post #21

What exactly is sexism? Behaving as sexes DO exist, and, for example, men can like the look of certain females? Well, sexes DO exist, and men do like the look of certain females. To state otherwise would be hypocrisy. And it's not like liking women or wanting to go to a bar that has pretty waitresses (and vice versa for women) if somehow taking advantage of the other sex. No more than wanting to go to a concert is ta…

Yes, being upset at someone emphasizing that there will be women around to serve you beers is tantamount to disallowing sexual desire. It's totally like 1984.

Yes, being upset at someone emphasizing that there will be women around to serve you beers is tantamount to disallowing sexual desire.

Yes it is. It is disallowing sexual desire to be expressed, and only allowing it to exist in private (thoughts or practice).

What's wrong with a place that has women serving beers, if some men would like such a place to exist? Did anybody FORCE those women to serve beer?

If it's an equality issue, well, build places where men with firm buttocks serve beer too. Hell, I'll serve at such a place, even though my buttocks ain't what they were.

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