When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#21

Post by master-lincoln » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

I never understood the "correct in private" stance. How can others learn who did not do the mistake? The argument to have critique in private only is probably because of ego and honor culture where people feel personally attacked in topics where it's not about them at all but about the actions they have taken in a professional context with rules and expectations.

But I fully agree on not talking to the manager, but praising in the full team instead.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#22

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:14 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #9

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

Let’s break down your version: “I think it would be better if…” You start with an opinion. That’s going to cause any listener to put up their guard. It’s the beginning of any sort of confrontations. By saying “Thank you for the effort…” you are acknowledging the work they put into it and showing empathy by seeing their work they have done. If it isn’t correct, either it should have been course corrected by management or volunteer for the next one. If you think something should be done a certain away across the board, create a brown bag or lunch and learn where you evangelize it and get consensus.

You aren’t lying when you give praise about someone’s effort (unless they gave none, in which case why are you praising to begin with?), you would be lying if you said “You did a great job” when the solution is potentially tech debt for later. It’s a matter of communication and human behavior.

You wouldn’t praise someone by saying “I think it could be better”.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#23

Post by jbandela1 » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

Not just coworkers.

If a customer service has really helped me with my issue, I will ask if I can talk to their manager to let them know how much I appreciated their help today.

So far everyone sounded pretty happy about that.

I tell the manager that really helped me with my issue and made me happy to be a customer of . The managers also seem pretty happy to hear that and some have mentioned that they will be adding that feedback to the employee’s file.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#24

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #17

whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

“I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” I hate this because it’s usually just a shit sandwich. “Great work. Actually it sucked. Keep going.”

“Great work” is an outcome. “Great effort” is an effort praise. It can still suck and you can still have great effort. You can’t have Great Work and it sucks.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#25

Post by jjice » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

master-lincoln wrote: post #21

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

I never understood the "correct in private" stance. How can others learn who did not do the mistake? The argument to have critique in private only is probably because of ego and honor culture where people feel personally attacked in topics where it's not about them at all but about the actions they have taken in a professional context with rules and expectations. But I fully agree on not talking to the manager, but p…

I think correcting in private makes sense if also paired with a no-blame oriented retro after the fact for everyone to know what happened and to brainstorm about preventative measure in the future.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#26

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

metafunctor wrote: post #20

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

Sounds like a dysfunctional workplace, or at least a very bad manager, if one has to secretly help colleagues. I'd leave that boss or job as soon as possible. Giving praise should always be OK. Rephrasing feedback for bad work as praise also sounds like a bad idea. In my experience, negative feedback should be honest, clear, constructive, and private.

Agreed. If my manager was like what I described, not liking praise given because it was out of scope of their routine, and was immediately upset - I’d be gone too. However, if it’s something that happens over and over again and eventually your manager says “Hey, it’s great your helping others, let’s document that so you can get back to the departments initiatives”. I’d have more respect.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#27

Post by freedomben » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

gabereiser wrote: post #22

whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

Let’s break down your version: “I think it would be better if…” You start with an opinion. That’s going to cause any listener to put up their guard. It’s the beginning of any sort of confrontations. By saying “Thank you for the effort…” you are acknowledging the work they put into it and showing empathy by seeing their work they have done. If it isn’t correct, either it should have been course corrected by management…

Your second example is a good one and I agree is a more effective approach to communicating.

But GP was right. There's a huge difference between your first example:

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?”

and the second:

> “Thank you for the effort…”

The first is most likely a lie, otherwise you wouldn't be offering an alternative suggestion! If somebody said that to me I'd feel extremely patronized and would consider that person very disingenuous.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#28

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

jlund-molfese wrote: post #14

whatshisface wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” That crosses the line by lying, I think it would be better to say "I think it would be better if you did it this way." It's bad to call them stupid or make a superfluous claim of objectivity, but you don't need to pretend to smile and praise.

I like to say something like "Hey, I realize you put a lot of hard work into X, but I think Y would be more efficient and save us all time in the long run!" Because then you're being totally truthful (assuming they actually are putting in effort) while still not coming across too directly.

"It's impressive how much time you were able to waste while only accomplishing X", but said a lot more politely.

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#29

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

master-lincoln wrote: post #21

agloe_dreams wrote: post #5

I disagree with the angle on this about asking and how to go about things but mostly because complimenting in context is helpful. When someone does great work, tell everyone, not just their manager. Do it in public and clearly in standups after they talk about what they did last day/week. "I just want to mention, that work that Joe did on that module is fantastic, thanks!" It is so easy to be a force for good. Being…

I never understood the "correct in private" stance. How can others learn who did not do the mistake? The argument to have critique in private only is probably because of ego and honor culture where people feel personally attacked in topics where it's not about them at all but about the actions they have taken in a professional context with rules and expectations. But I fully agree on not talking to the manager, but p…

[deleted]

Re: When your coworker does great work, tell their manager (2020)

#30

Post by gabereiser » Thu, Aug 31, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

thenose wrote: post #13

gabereiser wrote: post #4

>Ask if it’s ok first… This is very astute. Not everyone likes getting praise in public settings or they might not want their micromanaging manager to know they helped you outside the scope of their work. You should be cognizant of when praise should be given (i.e. when is it appropriate) and in what context as mentioned in the article. That said, if you aren’t thanking and praising your colleagues for doing good wor…

The other (depressing) situation is that newcomers often want to praise someone for their work, not realizing they work in a company whose managers are focused on playing games and forming alliances. In such environments, praising someone can actually work against you. I've heard the finance tech industry tends to suffer from this. Thankfully this seems rarer than the one you're mentioning, where everyone is happy to…

I’ve seen things…

Unfortunately the only way to win at office politics is to either not play, or play to win. Pick. If you find yourself in an organization where upper management is vying for control playing politics and alliances, I think it might be time to reach out to your network.