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North Korean science fiction

arstechnica.com

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Re: North Korean science fiction

#21

Post by dotnet00 »

mcpackieh wrote: post #19
dotnet00 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference that makes that much less logical being that in the West the government is not determining what people can watch, they're watching what they enjoy.

Western writers (usually) aren't taking direct orders from the government, but that doesn't mean they're impartial weather vanes that reveal currents in society but never try to manipulate (or fabricate) those social currents as they see fit.

And yet that doesn't support these conspiracies you and thread OP want to believe in.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#22

Post by mcpackieh »

dotnet00 wrote: post #21
mcpackieh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western writers (usually) aren't taking direct orders from the government, but that doesn't mean they're impartial weather vanes that reveal currents in society but never try to manipulate (or fabricate) those social currents as they see fit.

And yet that doesn't support these conspiracies you and thread OP want to believe in.

What conspiracies are you talking about?

You should read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chompsky. Most of what seems to be a conspiracy in western media is not actually organized as a conspiracy, but is emergent behavior in a system in which individual actors have aligned incentives. Acting individually without coordination, people hire and promote people who think like them, and ape then adopt the beliefs of their superiors.

I said usually western writers don't take direct orders from the government because sometimes they do, and this isn't even a secret. Hollywood lets the US military rewrite movies whenever they want access to military hardware and facilities. And during wartime, the US government employs writers to produce propaganda. Superhero comics in particular have their roots in overt war propaganda.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#23

Post by dotnet00 »

mcpackieh wrote: post #22
dotnet00 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet that doesn't support these conspiracies you and thread OP want to believe in.

What conspiracies are you talking about? You should read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chompsky. Most of what seems to be a conspiracy in western media is not actually organized as a conspiracy, but is emergent behavior in a system in which individual actors have aligned incentives. Acting individually without coordination, people hire and promote people who think like them, and ape then adopt the beliefs of their su…

The conspiracies being your attempt to argue that the superhero movie fad is some absurd attempt at making billionaires look good.

If you look for a conspiracy in everything, you're going to find it in everything. Entertainment is generally just entertainment and this sort of overanalysis of things to push an agenda has been part of what has made so much of modern entertainment so cookie cutter.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#24

Post by Mainan_Tagonist »

gumby wrote: post #2

I look forward to reading some of this. SF is pretty much always about the current day. Soviet SF was quite illuminating to me (back when anybody cared about the USSR). I’ve always wanted to read a couple of the Soviet equivalent of the James Bond novels.

Well, for the soviet equivalent to James Bond, look no further than Vsevolod Vladimirovich Vladimirov, better known as Max Von Stierlitz.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stierlitz

Re: North Korean science fiction

#25

Post by darkmarmot »

mcpackieh wrote: post #18
1shot37291007 wrote: post #9

> "Stories often touch on topics like space travel, benevolent robots, disease-curing nanobots, and deep-sea exploration. They lack aliens and beings with superpowers. Instead, the real superheroes are the exceptional North Korean scientists and technologists who carry the weight of the world on their shoulders." Here is an interesting symmetry as reflected by ideological mirrors. In NK, the state sanctioned imaginal…

> And no, you can't just become one of the special superheroes. Both are aiming to pacify the target society. Worse: You aren't such a superhero, but by random chance you might be chosen to become one and you are invited to imagine yourself in that situation. Any common person who might want to limit your hypothetical powers is an awful bigot and many of the stories revolve around tension between those with powers wh…

Better: shows like "The Boys" at least provide a gruesome window into "realistic" superhero behavior in a corporate hellscape.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#26

Post by throw1234651234 »

worrycue wrote: post #10
gumby wrote: post #2

I look forward to reading some of this. SF is pretty much always about the current day. Soviet SF was quite illuminating to me (back when anybody cared about the USSR). I’ve always wanted to read a couple of the Soviet equivalent of the James Bond novels.

> SF is pretty much always about the current day. SF is often speculative fiction that extrapolate current trends into the future - frequently taking them to their logic conclusion - to explore and critique. Good SF anyway.

Is it even worth reading? Genuine question. I thought it was campty sort of satirical old-timey stuff, but I never read it.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#27

Post by sdsd »

dotnet00 wrote: post #15
1shot37291007 wrote: post #9

> "Stories often touch on topics like space travel, benevolent robots, disease-curing nanobots, and deep-sea exploration. They lack aliens and beings with superpowers. Instead, the real superheroes are the exceptional North Korean scientists and technologists who carry the weight of the world on their shoulders." Here is an interesting symmetry as reflected by ideological mirrors. In NK, the state sanctioned imaginal…

The difference that makes that much less logical being that in the West the government is not determining what people can watch, they're watching what they enjoy.

[flagged]

Re: North Korean science fiction

#28

Post by er4hn »

tetris11 wrote: post #8
calimoro78 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share some examples of Soviet SF? Should be quite exciting.

Arkady and Boris Strugatsky were pretty prolific during this time (often writing in secret, and reciting their works only to trusted friends). "The Doomed City" is one of the best pieces of philosophical scifi I've ever read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doomed_City

The Doomed City is a bad example since it was specifically released in a post-soviet era. It had very direct criticisms of communism which lead to the authors deciding to not release it during the soviet era they wrote it.

"Hard to be a God", mentioned below, is a better example. Soviet era Sci-Fi where Star Trek esque space communists try to uplift a medieval society into modern political belief before establishing official first contact.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#29

Post by saiya-jin »

dotnet00 wrote: post #23
mcpackieh wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What conspiracies are you talking about? You should read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chompsky. Most of what seems to be a conspiracy in western media is not actually organized as a conspiracy, but is emergent behavior in a system in which individual actors have aligned incentives. Acting individually without coordination, people hire and promote people who think like them, and ape then adopt the beliefs of their su…

The conspiracies being your attempt to argue that the superhero movie fad is some absurd attempt at making billionaires look good. If you look for a conspiracy in everything, you're going to find it in everything. Entertainment is generally just entertainment and this sort of overanalysis of things to push an agenda has been part of what has made so much of modern entertainment so cookie cutter.

Yeah but just with literally everything else in life, everything is way more complex than first glance suggests, interconnected and if you actually care to dig deeper, you find interesting stuff. Nobody sane argues western Illuminati is steering and manipulating everything and everybody towards desired future, yet mass media manipulation is extremely common practice, ie mr Murdoch and similar folks have significant powers.

Also lets not forget that CIA was very active in Hollywood for many decades with light and not so light touches here and there, I mean its the propaganda tool for US hegemony and spreading western view on society, values, 'american dream' etc. If you want to shoot say an action movie with real US planes landing on real aircraft carriers, US navy will have non-trivial impact on your movie and its story (so most end up as over-patriotic to the point of being unwatchable for many non-US viewers).

Its all natural and logical, all humans like to see or hear stories that make us feel good even if its not proper truth, much more than stories telling some ugly hard truths.

Re: North Korean science fiction

#30

Post by Mainan_Tagonist »

darkmarmot wrote: post #25
mcpackieh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no, you can't just become one of the special superheroes. Both are aiming to pacify the target society. Worse: You aren't such a superhero, but by random chance you might be chosen to become one and you are invited to imagine yourself in that situation. Any common person who might want to limit your hypothetical powers is an awful bigot and many of the stories revolve around tension between those with powers wh…

Better: shows like "The Boys" at least provide a gruesome window into "realistic" superhero behavior in a corporate hellscape.

And The Watchmen long before that
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