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Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

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Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#21

Post by tech_ken »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
jeffbee wrote: post #3

Why doesn't the word "rent" appear in here anywhere? If the landlord becomes aware that the restaurant pays way above industry norms, it will raise the rents at the earliest opportunity to squeeze that money back out of the business. Either they own the building or have an existing long-term lease.

That's the exactly the same reason why basic income can't work if it's introduced on its own. This money will immediately land in the hands of landlords who'll just increase rent.

Doesn't any landlord who defects from colluding stand to gain though? Like how Georgists argue that their land tax won't get passed directly on to renters because if it's applied to the whole market at once then absent perfect and universal collusion on behalf of the landlords renters will arb out those with the highest rent spikes.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#22

Post by pc86 »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #14
deegles wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (naively) think a restaurant would have an easier time detecting people who are doing the bare minimum. The issue becomes how to "punish" freeloaders who are also owners? Imagine the nightmare scenario of a restaurant where every employee is a part of the LLC that owns it. "Firing" someone becomes an onerous legal process.

Does it? If the rest of the community doesn't want you there, seems pretty cut and dry. There are no "managers" at Valve, yet they fire people all the time. You would simply receive your pay, and whatever your portion of the dividends owed to you up until your date of firing.

There is a lot more legal overhead to buying out an LLC owner against their will compared to firing an at-will employee.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#23

Post by fallingknife »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #14
deegles wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (naively) think a restaurant would have an easier time detecting people who are doing the bare minimum. The issue becomes how to "punish" freeloaders who are also owners? Imagine the nightmare scenario of a restaurant where every employee is a part of the LLC that owns it. "Firing" someone becomes an onerous legal process.

Does it? If the rest of the community doesn't want you there, seems pretty cut and dry. There are no "managers" at Valve, yet they fire people all the time. You would simply receive your pay, and whatever your portion of the dividends owed to you up until your date of firing.

And how does your remaining equity position work? If you lose it on firing then you aren't really an owner in any meaningful sense any more than a tech employee with unvested RSUs is.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#24

Post by tracker1 »

scotty79 wrote: post #9
jeffbee wrote: post #3

Why doesn't the word "rent" appear in here anywhere? If the landlord becomes aware that the restaurant pays way above industry norms, it will raise the rents at the earliest opportunity to squeeze that money back out of the business. Either they own the building or have an existing long-term lease.

That's the exactly the same reason why basic income can't work if it's introduced on its own. This money will immediately land in the hands of landlords who'll just increase rent.

Considering a handful of companies already control most rental pricing, and already extract "maximum value" from those properties, I'm not sure it would be any different in any direction.

I don't get why there isn't some level of Trust Busting going on regarding the rental property pricing management at all.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#25

Post by colechristensen »

wcerfgba wrote: post #4

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing. Do you know any worker-owned food businesses? Share in the comments! In Preston, UK, we have The Larder. Not sure about the ownership model but it is a social enterprise working on food justice: https://larder.org.uk/

Hell's Kitchen in Minneapolis does something along these lines though the details aren't entirely obvious to me.

https://www.hellskitcheninc.com/

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#26

Post by programmarchy »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

Ever done a group project in school? Free riders ruin shared incentives.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#27

Post by vector_spaces »

wcerfgba wrote: post #4

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing. Do you know any worker-owned food businesses? Share in the comments! In Preston, UK, we have The Larder. Not sure about the ownership model but it is a social enterprise working on food justice: https://larder.org.uk/

In San Francisco, the Rainbow Grocery Cooperative has been around since the 70s. While working in the food industry in San Francisco, I had heard that employees there made in the ballpark of 100k~ a year, but that's purely hearsay and I have no idea how accurate it is. Before Bay Area tech workers chime in with how even 100k~ is effectively unlivable out there, I'll mention that I lived on about 25k a year in the Bay Area between 2010 and 2017, and lots of people -- food and service workers, teachers, warehouse workers, delivery drivers -- scrape by on similar or less, with no benefits or equity. You might be surprised how many restaurants and bars and grocery stores in the Bay hire their cashiers, busboys, dishwashers, and cooks as contractors, or pay them cash under the table.

Back on topic: there's also the Cheese Board in Berkeley, CA, and Arizmendi Bakery but not sure if the salaries are as great. There used to be a great bakery in South Berkeley that was worker owned and fairly well known, but the name is escaping me (edit: it was Nabolom Bakery). In any case, that one struggled more with the business side and employee salaries were close to minimum wage.

Another aside: it's interesting to me how lots of tech workers in the Bay Area live in an entirely different Bay Area than me or most people I knew out there -- these two worlds seem to scarcely talk to each other in any meaningful ways.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#28

Post by 542458 »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

I think it would incentivize bailing out as soon as times get slightly rough, and last thing you want is all your best (and most mobile) employees quitting when you need them most.

For example, if my company has a bad quarter and makes $0 net, does everybody get paid $0? Most people wouldn’t stand for that and would start job hunting pretty quick. The “work for equity at a startup” crowd does it because they can afford to take the risk of $0. Most people can’t or won’t take that risk.

> If you work at McDonalds, in is 100% in your interest to do the absolute bare minimum possible to not be fired

That incentive won't change much under this new system. Joe Average at McDonalds has little to no power to significantly increase the company’s, or even their franchise’s profits. Sure, they could maybe move the needle slightly, but working (say) twice as hard to make 3% more is probably not a rational move.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#29

Post by seanmcdirmid »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

> If you work at McDonalds, in is 100% in your interest to do the absolute bare minimum possible to not be fired, and in your employers interest to pay you as little as legally possible.

Having worked that gig before, that isn’t how it works. You don’t want to work hardish, you simply don’t get hours. If management doesn’t want to give you more than minimum raises, you leave for something else, and turn over is high. There is still leverage to do good things (both on worker and management side).

A lot of people working there (mainly managers, but some crew) wanted to be owners, McDonald’s had a franchise system in place to do that but you had a better chance of getting one if you actually learned the ropes at another store for awhile.

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