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For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

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Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#21
post #3

Synposis: Shitty Silly-Con valley company is selling "teaching homeschoolers" under the guise of "microschooling" and "guides" instead of proper teachers. Reading in any of these scam companies, and you'll find quickly that they are not schools, and these are not accredited teachers. But again, deregulation and demolishment of public sector structures and laws to further private interests IS the point, as we'll see.…

I started the article with the same skeptical mindset as you, and to be frank, I was in support of these by the time I finished it.

I can definitely see this being a disaster. I can also see it as becoming quite successful. Time will tell, but having more choices in education is better. Let those who can afford to experiment pay those fees. When I look at what people overpay for their cars, I'm going to guess this will have better returns than the vehicle will.

> In reality, send your children to public school, and use the money you'd waste on this scam to visit museums, universities, libraries, historical sites, and the like. BE the enriching force in your child's life.

A false dichotomy, don't you think? Someone sending their kids to these microschools are probably as likely to send their kids to museums, etc than those who send kids to public schools. In my anecdotal experience, they are more likely. In the old days (i.e. 10-20 years ago), sending kids to museums, libraries and field trips for education was heavily promoted by those advocating for homeschooling.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#22
I don't really "get" homeschooling. How can parents be knowledgeable in all the subjects that school teachers teach? There are also cases of parents homeschooling for the purpose of religiously or otherwise ideologically indoctrinating their children, something that does not often happen in public schools, both due to the curricula as well as heterogeneity of thought via socializing and sharing information with many other students.

I suppose the pro is that you can teach exactly what you want, but that's also a con, as above.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#23
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

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Very, very wrong. I know numerous homeschooled peers who have advanced degrees, including PhDs.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#24
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

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I mean it greatly depends on the quality and dedication of the parents doing the homeschooling.

I never considered it for my kids because our public schools are pretty good, and I did not feel I had the experience or resources or time to do any better. But some people have more of a passion for it and find answers to those issues.

I'm sure there are kids who are poorly homeschooled, but your anecdote does not meany anything in the big picture. Shall I tell you about all the public-school kids I met who ended up flunking out of college?

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#25
post #4
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

The argument about lack of socialization from failure to attend public school might have some basis. But thinking back, I came out of the public schools with some pretty anti social behaviors and attitudes that I picked up there. Being cool is so important at that age in that setting. I often wonder what life would have been like had I been taken out say, age 12 or 13 and given a more solid education to match my natu…

A relative is homeschooling their kids, and they’re not doing a great job of it academically, but those kids are some of the sweetest, most light hearted and caring kids I’ve ever been around.

I learned some socialization at public school, sure. I also learned what it was to have a bureaucracy just roll over you because nobody involved cared enough to notice you were there. Those kids will have that experience eventually, but I’m all for delaying it.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#26
post #2

We are in our ninth year of homeschooling. My wife and I attended private and public schools and grew up with typical biases against homeschooling, e.g. they lack social skills. When we got married, we always assumed we'd send our kids to traditional schools. What we learned, though, is that homeschooling has changed since we were in school. Back then, it was a niche, and the sort of parents who chose to homeschool u…

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Homeschooler here, from the era before this modern trend. Definitely grew up around students with poor social skills -— and even started out that way myself! —- but I graduated university with honours in computer science and have a successful career in software engineering.

I could share lots of anecdotes in the reverse, but that’s really all they are. Either way, homeschooling wasn’t nonsense for me, and I’m choosing to continue that legacy with my children alongside this next generation of parents who believe homeschooling is the best option for their family.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#27
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument about lack of socialization from failure to attend public school might have some basis. But thinking back, I came out of the public schools with some pretty anti social behaviors and attitudes that I picked up there. Being cool is so important at that age in that setting. I often wonder what life would have been like had I been taken out say, age 12 or 13 and given a more solid education to match my natu…

Is public school really that cruel these days? I have a 10 year old, and everyone in her class seems so wholesome and... exceedingly tolerant for lack of a better phrase. Compared to when I was a 10 year old where public school was a Lord Of The Flies thunderdome with bullying, and shoving people into lockers, and fights, and in-groups and out-groups and nerds vs. jocks, all the cruel 80s stereotypes. Sure, there's t…

I don't know about today and don't have kids. This was in the late 70's/ 80's. It was as you say, Lord of The Flies indeed. Good to hear maybe it has improved. Or maybe the bullying is all online now.

I'd like to point out, 10 years old isn't really in the thick of it yet. Might rethink your statement say, Junior year of high school.

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#28
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

It’s a small but vocal minority and not representative

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#29
post #17

Why are people in the US so against public schools? I am someone who did not really enjoy “school” and found it anxiety inducing but I still see the benefits of it. In public school you are forced to mingle with the people of your generation. The ones who will inevitably go on to run the country in whatever big or small way. The objective of public school is to break down the regional identities of old and assimilate…

> Why are people in the US so against public schools?

The sentiment is not universal - perhaps not even close to a majority. Most people in the US value public schools.

As to why people want to homeschool? The reasons are diverse and differ for everyone. Themes you'll see:

- Religious parents who object to some aspect of the public school system (anti-coed, against some of the indoctrination kids get, etc).

- Smart parents who realize public schools are very inefficient and cater to the worst students. They fear their kids will not get the quality education they themselves got, and feel they can teach at a more advanced level, in a more efficient manner. If you're very skilled in certain subjects (e.g. math), it is very scary to send your kids to an average school. The probability that they will be above average in whatever subject you are good at is fairly low.

- Along the same lines, people from other countries who are great at certain subjects because their home countries valued them but the current one doesn't. That's why schools like "Russian School of Mathematics" exist. Not everyone lives in a city that has one, so ... homeschool.

- Parents who believe schools are the source of anti-social behavior and vices, and don't want their kids to end up that way. Having seen kids who were home schooled, this really works.

- Along the same lines, stuff like bullying. Especially for those who grew up elsewhere, it seems insane how normalized bullying in schools is in the US. A lot of Americans view it as a rite of passage: You go to school so you can learn skills to stand up to bullies. For immigrants, all of this means your kid learns less (whether successful against the bullies or not).

- You have ideology X and simply value a lot of things not taught in school, and devalue what they do teach.

- Culture: I had a great education, but as I have gotten older, I realized that the school/teachers alone are not sufficient - you need to be in a culture that values what you are learning. Many immigrants (and even Americans) see American culture as anti-intellectual, and that impedes what they retain (even when they learn it and get A's). They may feel the public school teaches well enough, but fear their kids will be stunted because of the culture.

I once tutored some kids, and they did not know "basic" things like number of days in a year. It's not that they were dumb, or had not been taught it. It was just a random useless piece of knowledge. They learned it, passed the test, and forgot it. And no matter how hard I tried to make it relevant for them, it wouldn't be because it wasn't relevant in their home environment or amongst their peers.

Where I grew up, it was socially unacceptable not to know this, so everyone knew it, whether a top student or a barely passing one.

You can argue that this really isn't important to know, but now extend that to almost everything they teach - including arithmetic and other parts of math. I would teach them, they could clearly understand and learn it, they'd do their homework, and then forget it until they have to prepare for the tests. And then forget it again.

You won't progress far in math if you learn that way. And those who are interested in math are often shunned. I've lived in countries where basic arithmetic (including multiplication) is a basic skill everyone (who is literate), can do on paper. They may "suck" at math, have failed algebra, but even to their old age can do multiplication and other arithmetic with relative ease. Why? Because society will judge them as idiots if they can't. It doesn't matter that calculators are available.

Someone from that country will suddenly be concerned when they see how what is unacceptable where they come from has been normalized, and what is a bare minimum back home will cause you to be shunned.

Verizonmath[1] is very much a thing in the US. Verizon was definitely not an outlier. Every since it blew up in 2006, I've noticed it everywhere - I often take photos of proper ads from real companies advertising a price of 0.99 cents when they mean 99 cents. At yard sales, it's very common to see things advertised as 0.50 cents. Outside of places like HN, when I've pointed it out, I get push back - some percentage don't even see what is wrong, and the rest insist it's OK to list prices that way, even after acknowledging the mathematical error.

If you come from Eastern Europe, you probably don't want your kids thinking it's OK. If the teacher teaches it properly but all their fellow students think it's OK, chances are your kid will think it's OK.

[1] http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/

Re: For many home-schoolers, parents are no longer doing the teaching

#30
post #18
post #13

> Home-schooled children have attended Ivy League schools and won national spelling bees. They have also been the victims of child abuse and severe neglect. Some are taught using the classics of ancient Greece, others with Nazi propaganda. So ... just like kids in public school? Somewhat orthogonal to the article: In my state a lot of people were forced to home-school during Covid, and a significant percentage of the…

> I've known homeschooled kids that are easily 2 grades ahead of where they would be at a typical public school - and with no social shortcomings whatsoever For certain kids school is holding them up But that’s the problem with a standardization. What are the odds that all kids need the same amount of time for all subjects Initially everyone was home schooled. The school system is a feature & bug of scaling up

Initially everyone was illiterate, except the lucky few in position of wealth.
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