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Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

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Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#21

Post by tempaccount1234 »

yonatan8070 wrote: post #17
parker_mountain wrote: post #12

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration). I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Appl…

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Driver support. For example on Ubuntu I can’t use touch gestures on my touch screen and can’t assign all keyboard keys. Ok, not everyone uses a Japanese laptop with a European windows, but that works pretty well…

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#22

Post by gumballindie »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #18
yonatan8070 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

My Linux install does dumb shit (technical term) all the time, but I find it's a small price to pay for software that doesn't hate me. Case in point: I just upgraded to the newish Xubuntu 23.04 the other day, and now my default sound output device changes (to the wrong one) every time I come out of sleep mode. A small price to pay.

Kubuntu 23.04 kernel 6.4.11 here - works fine. The issue you describe may be XFCE specific.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#23

Post by carlosjobim »

yonatan8070 wrote: post #17
parker_mountain wrote: post #12

I have honestly given up on Windows. It has extremely strong fundamentals, but they seem determined to mine their users for money instead of investing in a platform. I find what's happening in Apple world to be dire, but at least they have been good stewards of the user. Desktop Linux has its own serious problems as well (there's a reason its at 3%~ market penetration). I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think Appl…

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin.

- I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features.

- Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other distros.

- Audio or Bluetooth not working

- Very messy to install software. The native "App Store" wouldn't work or connect, so had to resort to shell commands.

- Lack of suitable productivity software (which you mentioned).

As long as nobody wants to offer a complete Linux solution with hardware, operating system and productivity software, then it will continue to be like this. That's the problem with OSS, everybody wants to blame each other and nobody wants to take responsibility and deliver a complete experience to users.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#24

Post by yummypaint »

carlosjobim wrote: post #23
yonatan8070 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin. - I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features. - Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other di…

People like to compare random laptops running linux against macbooks running osx or thinkpads running windows, but that isn't really fair as linux is being expected to correctly support more hardware than the commercial options.

Compare a thinkpad running windows to the same computer running linux. I have been getting an experience superior to windows on an old x220 for the better part of a decade now. Absolutely everything works perfectly out of the box.

Lack of proper ssh graphical support, wrong file path notation, constant inexcusable security fuck-ups, and a user-hostile philosophy makes windows unsuitable for serious work. It isn't capable of being left alone for more than a few days without restarting the computer it's on. What a bad joke in 2023. At my workplace people innevitably start using a vm or try to patch things over with putty, but eventually most excorcise microsoft from their work laptops and join the real world.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#25

Post by aaomidi »

carlosjobim wrote: post #23
yonatan8070 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin. - I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features. - Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other di…

There’s too many damn distros out there and it takes a bit to find exactly what to use.

I am really annoyed that Ubuntu has become synonymous with Linux because it’s one of the worst distros to act as a desktop.

Also, curse NVIDIA for effectively keeping X alive.

For some of your points, multi DPI needs Wayland. Wayland isn’t everywhere because of NVIDIA.

Audio not working is a really odd one. Not sure what the cause of that is.

Flatpak works with the gnome software store. So that has reduced the entry barrier.

At this point I recommend EndeavourOS if you want a more traditional Linux experience and fedora silverblue if you want it to “just work, but that’s limited to Intel and AMD GPUs.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#26

Post by rd07 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #23
yonatan8070 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin. - I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features. - Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other di…

Your 3rd and 4th point makes me wonder about your hardware as well as the distro and desktop environment you use to have that kind of experience. My recipe for trouble-less Linux installation is to use hardware that has well-known compatibility with Linux (Thinkpad for me), as well as a popular distro and desktop environment (Manjaro+KDE or more recently EndeavourOS+Gnome for me).

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#27

Post by hosteur »

deafpolygon wrote: post #10

> Windows 11 gave me an unsolicited toaster popup, with the default action being to change Chrome's default search engine to Bing Not doubting you, but as a W11 home user for a while- I haven't seen this myself. > This is an atrocious dark pattern and a huge overreach for an operating system It's not a dark pattern. It's definitely an annoying thing - how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay…

> how is this different from Apple reminding you to set-up Apple Pay?

Thats an absolute dark pattern too.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#28

Post by darepublic »

naikrovek wrote: post #4

is it a dark pattern if it clearly asks you to do something, and doesn't lie or deceive you about what it's going to do if you accept or decline? (no, it isn't a dark pattern if it isn't lying or tricking you into making a decision you would not make otherwise. this particular behavior isn't defensible behavior, and it isn't an example of a dark pattern, either.) is this how languages evolve so fast? people using wor…

It's a dark pattern to constantly solicit the user the same offer with no option to turn it off. Ie my windows machine constantly suggesting I switch to windows 11, using vaguer language than normal so that I may accidentally select yes, and having no opt out option so I may eventually concide out of exhaustion rather than real consent

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#29

Post by salawat »

carlosjobim wrote: post #23
yonatan8070 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Linux user, both on the desktop and on my home servers, what "serious problems" does the Linux desktop have? I know it isn't perfect, are you referring to the lack software support by the likes Adobe and MS Office?

Used a Linux machine for a while when my Mac was being repaired. It's not enough for professional use, unless you're a programmer or sysadmin. - I couldn't find a good enough e-mail client, so did what every Linux user I know do and used webmail. That means you lose speed and features. - Dual screen support for different DPI is non-existent in most distros, and has to be hacked with xrandr scripts to work in other di…

Email client:

Thunderbird

What more do you need? Mutt is good for terminal usage too.

Or are you lamenting stuff like integrated calendar and what not?

>- Very messy to install software. The native "App Store" wouldn't work or connect, so had to resort to shell commands.

Software install is A) fundamentally messy if you refuse to read what is being installed, B) nothing to complain about given that the level of friction a developer has to go through for say, bloody Mac software releases is insane. For linux, a tarball download, path update, and linker path update is generally sufficient.

>-- Lack of suitable productivity software (which you mentioned).

I have immense difficulty taking this at face value.

>That's the problem with OSS, everybody wants to blame each other and nobody wants to take responsibility and deliver a complete experience to users.

Ya know what, maybe I've gone to the dark side in that the problem there is in the expectation of the user.

Most tools arise out of "it solves a problem for me" and we share. Maybe some distro builder has the passion to integrate things... Good on them.

You will never have a great experience using a tool you refuse to become proficient in, and computers are no different in that. The most toxic thing that happened to our industry os we suddenly seem to have drawn a line between Users and developers when in reality, there is only users.

Re: Windows popup to change competing browser search engine to Bing anticompetitive?

#30

Post by naikrovek »

esperent wrote: post #9
naikrovek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm cynical because I've seen SO MANY terms quickly change, only to be told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect. I'm cynical because I've been forced to be. "copypasta" used to mean that a programs source code was copied from many places and hastily wired up so it all works without any cleanup or untangling of unnecessary bits of code, like casts from uint16 to uint32 so that o…

> told by people who are younger than my career that my use of a term is incorrect Being old doesn't make you wise, or right. It's nonsense to demand that meaning of words will never change, because change over time is just how language works. That's how we got from Chaucer, to Shakespeare, to modern English. The changes do happen fast enough to be noticeable in a single lifetime. As you grow older, it's important to…

> Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

are you serious?

being old doesn't inherently make you know things, no, and that is absolutely not what I was saying.

I was around when the term was coined and I used it in conversation with others. After that the people who argue with me today tell me that my use of the term then was wrong were born.

Wikipedia is wrong about the origins of this term; I was using it in 1998 in the #slashdot IRC channel, and that's where I was introduced to the term.

why in the hell do you think I was saying that age alone grants knowledge? that is a leap greater than I've seen in a long time.

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