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Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

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21–30 of 74 posts

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#21
post #7

I don't quite understand the premise of longevity research. Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology? Infinite, cancer-free lives sounds just too good to be true. Something sounds off about that.

> Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology?

There's a difference between "there are probably trade-offs here" versus "this is impossible because otherwise it would have happened already."

Consider that land plants evolved lignin to grow tall, leading to gigatons of free lunch sitting around for tens of thousands of years before anything else found the trick of digesting it.

If there weren't any free--or at least below-cost--lunches out there, nothing would evolve, because there'd be no benefit in changing anything.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#22
post #7

I don't quite understand the premise of longevity research. Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology? Infinite, cancer-free lives sounds just too good to be true. Something sounds off about that.

> Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology?

Not really, no. There are examples of complex multicellular animal life with negligible senescence: some species of tortoises, of sturgeon, naked mole-rats — they don't die "of old age", only by illness and violence.

But even if there was no free lunch, we might just be able to pay the price in a way that evolution can't; I'd be very surprised if we could even engineer a gene for an organic MRI machine, let alone have one evolve naturally, but we can use what genetics evolution gave us to build a machine to liquify helium to turn unnatural rocks into superconductors to peer within our bodies and look for growths.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#23
post #7

I don't quite understand the premise of longevity research. Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology? Infinite, cancer-free lives sounds just too good to be true. Something sounds off about that.

Who said anything about infinite cancer free lives?

Some animals live longer than us. Many of them have lower cancer rates than us too.

Seems like a good idea to investigate the possibility of having longer and healthier lives.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#24
post #13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology?" Is there? Is this a widely accepted scientific fact? What does this even mean? That you can't get a benefit without a cost? I thought that this phrase comes from economics. I think you're thinking of economics which is... not human biology. "Infinite, cancer-free lives sounds just too good to be true. Something sounds off about that." So just accept the f…

You see I'm also a human being such as you who values life and people. It's a bit harsh to comment about my world view sarcastically like that. I was just voicing something about the process: biology is a complex thing and longevity is not attacking things from a metabolic, complex-system viewpoint. As we see here, we are after single pills or single gene activations to carry us to a healthy state. I doubt infinite h…

There’s a big difference between being immortal and not having to die at some preprogrammed time that is purely a byproduct of our evolutionary history. It’s a spectrum.

We don’t know what it will take to make us healthier/love longer.

All we are doing is trying to understand our bodies.

All cancer and heart healthier research is also trying to effectively increase human lifespan. So are anti smoking campaigns and seat belts.

No one would comment the way you did for these. We just take these for granted as a good thing.

But trying to understand the genetic basis of aging is however you put it.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#25
post #20

We're diminishing biodiversity to our own peril and disadvantage. The primary driver of biodiversity loss and deforestation is animal agriculture. Act accordingly. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204892120 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2023/08/ecological-cliff-edge/

I don't see how this has anything to do with the article, or how it's much more than alarmist anti-science rhetoric. Care to expand a bit?

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#26

Anyone else envious of mice always being on the cutting edge of science?

As a pet rat owner of over 8 years, medical research on rodents actually rarely results in benefits for pets of that species.

The main advantage we have found so far is that drug studies done on rats can serve as a reference for safe and potentially effective dosages, as there's very little veterinary literature on rodent care otherwise. All meds for rats are typically repurposed cat, dog or human meds and determining the dose needed for treatment is trial and error more often than not – even in the hands of an experienced vet.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#27
post #19
post #7

I don't quite understand the premise of longevity research. Isn't there a concept similar to "no free lunch" in biology? Infinite, cancer-free lives sounds just too good to be true. Something sounds off about that.

It's a very valid point. Our past meddling with ecosystems and biologies have often produced unintended consequences to great detriment, it's not hard to imagine those from this too. Even ignoring the biological risks here, the economic risks are quite obvious - we're already in a place where many developed nations have demographic problems where ever greater percentages of the population no longer work, leading to l…

Unfortunately meddling with humans is not something that is very possible or accepted. This is one of the primary reasons we’ve made almost zero progress recently in understanding ourselves.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#29
post #18

By 4% which may as well be experimental error, right? The mice could have very well just lived longer due to increased interest/handling/measurement of their welfare. This seems insignificant when compared with other selector genes such as H63D and C282Y, which could potentially double or halve subjects life span depending on environmental factors.

I know there's the replication crisis and everything, but let's not be over cynical - I don't think Nature would publish a study that didn't use basic statistics and didn't have a control group for its experiment?

Typically Nature or high impact journals are specifically more likely to publish irreproducible studies.

It's very similar to the well established fact that students with good grades are the most likely to cheat.

If you want to look for solid research, don't look to Nature, look to the so called "mid tier" journals. Also, similar observations are true for research groups. Research from ivy-league universities follows similar principles as above.

Re: Naked Mole Rat’s Longevity Gene Gives Mice a Longer Life

#30
post #25
post #20

We're diminishing biodiversity to our own peril and disadvantage. The primary driver of biodiversity loss and deforestation is animal agriculture. Act accordingly. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204892120 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2023/08/ecological-cliff-edge/

I don't see how this has anything to do with the article, or how it's much more than alarmist anti-science rhetoric. Care to expand a bit?

Sure.

I see DNA as a code that has been written by nature over millennia.

We don't understand the genetic code well enough to hack or rewrite our DNA to grant us longevity. However, we might discover a species in nature with relevant genetic traits and replicate those parts, assuming that the species is not extinct.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/13/almost-7...

If we've managed to wipe out 70% of animal populations in just 50 years, it doesn't seem like it will take long for those remaining populations to collapse.

- More losers than winners: investigating Anthropocene defaunation through the diversity of population trends [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/brv.12974]

- The climate crisis and biodiversity crisis can't be approached separately [https://phys.org/news/2023-04-climate-crisis-biodiversity-ap...]

https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline

Wild mammals have declined by 85% since the rise of humans

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2204892120

The total mammal biomass:

- livestock (≈630 Mt)

- humans (≈390 Mt)

- wild marine mammals (≈40 Mt)

- terrestrial wild mammals (≈20 Mt)

Of the last category, about half is mice. And that's just mammals. Look at insects (80% decline), sharks (80-90%), fish (seas virtually empty in 2040's), birds (about 30-50% decline), etc. etc.

https://ourworldindata.org/drivers-of-deforestation

The primary driver of deforestation and subsequent biodiversity loss is animal agriculture, which occupies 80% of all agricultural lands. Our industrial agriculture, excluding animal agriculture, is also a significant contributor to biodiversity loss and soil degradation (also a form of biodiversity loss) due to its use of pesticides, herbicides, and over use of fertilizers.

The majority of our pharmaceuticals originally stem from nature. We've just learned to read, and manipulate the genetic code, while simultaneously depleting the largest repository of such code.

And this discussion doesn't even touch upon the ethical or moral implications of such behavior or the theft from future generations or zoonotic diseases ...

- Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/]

- Our global food system is the primary driver of biodiversity loss [https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-glob...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries#Nine_boun...

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