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Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

nippon.com

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Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#21

Post by gottorf »

hinkley wrote: post #16
gottorf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is an uncomfortable conversation because it’s not true but they pretend it is. Of course, every group of humans is further divisible into smaller groups, so no group larger than the individual is a true mono-anything. But when the great majority of those within and without Japan agree that for all practical purposes Japan is occupied by the Japanese, I'm OK rolling with it. The same cannot be said of e.g. Fran…

The Ainu are distinctly not “Japanese” genetically. It’s at least the difference say (pulling this out of my ass, may be better examples) between Germanic and Celtic peoples in Europe. Only they were too evenly matched geopolitically and so one never managed to erase the other. Roma and Hebrews on the other hand… probably more like the Ainu than not.

I am aware of the Ainu, though I'm certainly not an expert on the topic. Wikipedia suggests that there may be 25k to 200k Ainu people in Japan, which would be 0.02% to 0.16% of the population; and supposedly the language is nearly extinct. So my point about Japan being monoethnic "for all practical purposes" still stands, as Ainu culture is not widespread enough to make a difference.

I suspect the broader point you're trying to make is that the concept of Japan (or any other country) as a monoethnic country is in many ways manufactured by politicians and other powerful interests over time; and in many cases literally manufactured by genocide. And I grant you that's entirely true, potentially in every single "monoethnic" country. But, manufactured or not, there is a tangible difference.

I myself grew up in a monoethnic country, with the presence of a unifying cultural common ground; for example, I could rely upon the fact that a popular television show was being watched by nearly everyone in the country, even in the remote corners. And that's just one minor example of what adds up to the sense that yes, this stranger next to me has had a similar life to me, at least in what we were taught in school, the media we consumed, the food we grew up eating, the behavioral customs we expect of each other, and so on.

The absence of this unifying cultural common ground is the characteristic of a polyethnic country.

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#22

Post by getoj »

gottorf wrote: post #13
hinkley wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> monoethnic That is an uncomfortable conversation because it’s not true but they pretend it is. Especially on the more peripheral islands. Okinawa, Hokkaido. It’s a hilly archipelago nation. There are many traditions specific to one island and not held in common culturally with the rest of the Nihonjin. On the other hand, because their culture is “taller” instead of broad, I see many ways in which particular arts an…

> That is an uncomfortable conversation because it’s not true but they pretend it is. Of course, every group of humans is further divisible into smaller groups, so no group larger than the individual is a true mono-anything. But when the great majority of those within and without Japan agree that for all practical purposes Japan is occupied by the Japanese, I'm OK rolling with it. The same cannot be said of e.g. Fran…

> every group of humans is further divisible into smaller groups

Indeed, the Ryukyuans were divided into a whole kingdom with its own head of state and foreign policy, which didn’t become “part of Japan” until the late 19th century. Hokkaido was “acquired” in the 1860s, along with its indigenous people. The dates and situations closely parallel Hawaii and Alaska. To say that they are Japanese because the Japanese government decided so is to ignore historical facts in favor of ideology.

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#24

Post by jhedwards »

I know this is kind of silly, but it annoys me a bit to see this portrayed as some creative innovation of the Japanese on top of some ancient Chinese system, when it's really just a simplification of the Confucian text Yue Ling: https://ctext.org/liji/yue-ling

The Yue Ling is a beautiful text, and it speaks to an aspect of Confucianism which I find fascinating, which is the idea that the ideal scholar-official should have a deep understanding of both climate and ecology. It's also fascinating how Japan imported and creatively re-interpreted this text, but it's originally of Chinese creation.

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#25

Post by laserbeam »

jhedwards wrote: post #24

I know this is kind of silly, but it annoys me a bit to see this portrayed as some creative innovation of the Japanese on top of some ancient Chinese system, when it's really just a simplification of the Confucian text Yue Ling: https://ctext.org/liji/yue-ling The Yue Ling is a beautiful text, and it speaks to an aspect of Confucianism which I find fascinating, which is the idea that the ideal scholar-official should…

Although the origins of the text matter for presentation, my only thought when reading this text was "man, I wish my flavor of European culture had this as well and I wish it were taught in school at some point".

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#26

Post by jerf »

laserbeam wrote: post #25
jhedwards wrote: post #24

I know this is kind of silly, but it annoys me a bit to see this portrayed as some creative innovation of the Japanese on top of some ancient Chinese system, when it's really just a simplification of the Confucian text Yue Ling: https://ctext.org/liji/yue-ling The Yue Ling is a beautiful text, and it speaks to an aspect of Confucianism which I find fascinating, which is the idea that the ideal scholar-official should…

Although the origins of the text matter for presentation, my only thought when reading this text was "man, I wish my flavor of European culture had this as well and I wish it were taught in school at some point".

It may not have exactly this, but it probably has more than you realize. The rush of the 20th and 21st century has crowded out a lot of stuff. The western world has a rich poetry and literature tradition. Given how severed we are from all of it nowadays you may well find you still get that foreign culture frisson from digging into it.

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#29

Post by hinkley »

gottorf wrote: post #21
hinkley wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ainu are distinctly not “Japanese” genetically. It’s at least the difference say (pulling this out of my ass, may be better examples) between Germanic and Celtic peoples in Europe. Only they were too evenly matched geopolitically and so one never managed to erase the other. Roma and Hebrews on the other hand… probably more like the Ainu than not.

I am aware of the Ainu, though I'm certainly not an expert on the topic. Wikipedia suggests that there may be 25k to 200k Ainu people in Japan, which would be 0.02% to 0.16% of the population; and supposedly the language is nearly extinct. So my point about Japan being monoethnic "for all practical purposes" still stands, as Ainu culture is not widespread enough to make a difference. I suspect the broader point you'r…

> that there may be 25k to 200k Ainu people in Japan

My point is that the Ainu people were... not consulted on whether that is a good number to have or not. You're seeing effect, not cause. To put it very, very delicately.

Re: Japan’s 72 Microseasons (2015)

#30

Post by kevinmchugh »

ajuc wrote: post #14
canvascritic wrote: post #5

I first learned about the microseasons during my second year in Japan when I was wandering thru Tokyo one day in February, and had an experience that introduced me to the bush warblers singing microseason. I was looking for this bookshop owned by an older woman named yumi, who supposedly had a collection of ancient poems and stories, many of which encompassed the lore of the 72 kō (I never did end up finding it, sadl…

> It is pretty beautiful how such small, centuries-old traditions seem to abound in Japan, where the condition of the west seems to be a state of persistent impermanence. You own traditions often seem trivial and normal compared to foreign ones. Especially so anglosaxon ones because of all the popculture and merchandise. But they are just as bizzare and ingrained in culture when you look at them from a different POV.…

> baby gender reveal parties

This is an extraordinarily recent phenomenon. There's probably no one who will read this thread who's gender was revealed at one of those parties. The oldest people who had their gender revealed at a party will be able to get their driver's license next year.

A lot of people think they're strange!

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