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5 years ago Valve released Proton

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Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#21

Post by brigade »

crickey wrote: post #12
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, WINE has always been the most stable ABI on Linux. Good luck just getting a 5-year-old binary of any desktop file manager running on a modern Linux installation. I’m dead serious. Grab a copy of Nautilus or GNOME Files from Ubuntu 16.04; try running it on Ubuntu 22.04. It isn’t easy. Now imagine a game.

This is only because of the nature of dynamic linking. Have a statically linked executable and you should be fine. Not that it should be an issue to get old software to run you simply need to download the dependent lib versions. Anyone who sais this i feel hasnt worked very much with software, not that you should need to thats up to the one distributing the executable

What you mean is: the only stable ABI in Linux is the Linux kernel’s itself.

Windows is the opposite: the only stable ABI is the dynamically linked user space ABI. So yes, it’s perfectly possible to have a stable dynamic ABI across a dynamically linked boundary.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#23

Post by netbioserror »

ndjdjfjfj wrote: post #14
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

> relying on Proton would be better performing I tried Overwatch 2 with Proton and performance was abysmal. My computer seemed to be melting and FPS was jumping all over the place. It does 144fps on Windows 11 without sweating (same PC).

I highly recommend tweaking things like Proton versions (try GloriousEggroll for example). I've been playing OW and OW2 on Linux for years, had very few issues since the beginning and excellent framerates.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#24

Post by olliej »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

I mean that's what Apple has done with "Game Porting Kit" - valve has pushed "windows is the platform" to such an extent that no one even tries to write portable code for games and just targets directx.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#25

Post by johnny22 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20
idle76 wrote: post #2

Also check out Glorious Eggroll on Gihub for even better performance.

On the topic of GE, anyone try his custom Fedora distro, Nobara[1] and has any feedback on it? Is it daily-drivable on a laptop without any issues, and stable long term without any breakages? Not just for gaming, but for daily entertainment and productivity task of those with one distro for everything? I tried installing it a while back and found the default installer partitioning much more janky and messed up GRUB m…

I've only heard good things about it, but i see no reason to use it. making fedora do what it does is easy enough.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#26

Post by mschuster91 »

One thing that I'd love to see is a Proton version for M1/M2 Apple Silicon... UTM is the only thing that runs x86 VMs and for whatever reason its QEMU guest tool drivers are all completely buggy and everything is dog slow (and of course, Windows refusing to load unsigned drivers on Win7 x64 makes trying out different drivers pretty much impossible).

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#27

Post by crickey »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #19
crickey wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only because of the nature of dynamic linking. Have a statically linked executable and you should be fine. Not that it should be an issue to get old software to run you simply need to download the dependent lib versions. Anyone who sais this i feel hasnt worked very much with software, not that you should need to thats up to the one distributing the executable

Unless you statically linked GTK, possibly Xorg, and more into a ludicrous bundle size, you’d still be screwed. As for “just get the libs,” that’s hilariously easier said than done. Try my example - it’s enough to make an engineer cry.

https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/ https://www.gtk.org/docs/installations/linux/ I mean it will probably not be painless and other applications u run might break* but xorg is relativly stable. Liba are out there are free to get. Usually people are arguing that the conveniences isnt there not that its not possible.

* if u dont sandbox this a bit with custom lib paths

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#28

Post by johnny22 »

vinyl7 wrote: post #16
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

Game developers have stated that the support requests they get for Linux outweighs the revenue they get from supporting it. There are so many distros with different packages/dependencies, drivers, package managers etc. that it's very time consuming to keep up and not worth it.

Steam has provided their own container runtime for quite some time, so the packaging and dpendendies are a lot of a problem if you only distribute on steam.

I still prefer they go with the proton approach though.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#29

Post by stetrain »

mschuster91 wrote: post #26

One thing that I'd love to see is a Proton version for M1/M2 Apple Silicon... UTM is the only thing that runs x86 VMs and for whatever reason its QEMU guest tool drivers are all completely buggy and everything is dog slow (and of course, Windows refusing to load unsigned drivers on Win7 x64 makes trying out different drivers pretty much impossible).

Yep, if Apple could get over their stubbornness and work with Valve on this it would be fantastic for customers of both companies.

Apple has done some work with their game porting toolkit to support certain flavors of DirectX games with a combo of Wine and Rosetta. But this isn’t officially pitched as tool for end users to run Windows games.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#30

Post by taeric »

vinyl7 wrote: post #16
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

Game developers have stated that the support requests they get for Linux outweighs the revenue they get from supporting it. There are so many distros with different packages/dependencies, drivers, package managers etc. that it's very time consuming to keep up and not worth it.

I recall seeing similar with major caveats, though. The general "make linux support and they will come" crowd is clearly too big to be meaningful. That said, there was a story of someone that had a bug cut from a linux user that commented how it was one of their best support cases ever. User was engaged and willing/able to work with them in ways that few support cases are.

As such, this is a mixed bag. Actual users that cut support issues from random machines will be worth trying to engage with. General cries that you should support it with no payment in play should likely be ignored, though.

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