Live data from Hacker News

Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

maisonneuve.org

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#21
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not only was the mine primarily staffed by "whites", uranium ore has negligible health risks.

A lump of raw ore on a shelf in your home office? Sure.

Uranium ore in ton quantities, underground in a poorly ventilated mine? That’s a big health risk, due to radon, other daughter products, and the inherent heavy metal hazards of uranium.

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#22
post #4

Based on my notes from reading The New World: Volume 1, 1939-1946 by Hewlett and Anderson, approximately 1/6th of the Uranium used for the Manhattan Project came from Canada, 1/7th from the US, and the rest came from the Belgian Congo (most of that was actually shipped across the Atlantic before the US entered the war- it was stored on Staten Island for safekeeping before US entry and the creation of the Manhattan Pr…

Does this have something to do with the article? It reads like a random "mining is racist" rant which has set off some fighting.

Mining isn't racist necessarily, but it is definitely done by exploiting people, and in ways that line up with the power structure at that place and time.

My wife did her (pharmacy) residency at a hospital in West Virginia, which is both incredibly poor, exploited heavily for coal mining (until the recent fracking boom surge in natural gas killed it), and very white. She definitely spent a lot of her time treating black lung and other mining diseases that didn't involve mining for uranium.

Mining exploits the land, it exploits the people who do it, and our civilization is built on it and absolutely requires enormous quantities of it. I don't have a larger point, just that I try to live with it.

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#23
post #4

Based on my notes from reading The New World: Volume 1, 1939-1946 by Hewlett and Anderson, approximately 1/6th of the Uranium used for the Manhattan Project came from Canada, 1/7th from the US, and the rest came from the Belgian Congo (most of that was actually shipped across the Atlantic before the US entered the war- it was stored on Staten Island for safekeeping before US entry and the creation of the Manhattan Pr…

> Postwar US Uranium mines in Arizona and Utah also used Dine (Navajo) and other native peoples with similar levels of racism, exploitation, leaving thousands of people sick etc. Not exactly just exploiting minorities. My grandpa died because he mined Uranium post-war, but he was white and afaik so was everyone he worked with.

>Not exactly just exploiting minorities.

They didn't say "just" or "only" minorities. However, most of the mines were located on or near, Navajo land and over 4 million tons of ore came for that land. The workers were disproportionately Navajo and the land is now poisoned with radioactive waste from the mining, with cancer rates doubling from the 1970s to the 1990s. Land the Navajo were forced onto. Recognizing the damage this has done to an already persecuted minority population does not negate damage done to individuals of other races or ethnicities.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/04/10/4735472...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222290/

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#24
post #4

Based on my notes from reading The New World: Volume 1, 1939-1946 by Hewlett and Anderson, approximately 1/6th of the Uranium used for the Manhattan Project came from Canada, 1/7th from the US, and the rest came from the Belgian Congo (most of that was actually shipped across the Atlantic before the US entered the war- it was stored on Staten Island for safekeeping before US entry and the creation of the Manhattan Pr…

The risks around radioactive materials were very poorly understood at the time, and were largely learned by lethal trial and error.

The Manhattan Project was done to end a war killing tens of thousands of people a day, which I think can defend some grim tradeoffs.

I won't claim all workers were well treated, but many scientists were also killed and injured in this learning process.

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#25
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not only was the mine primarily staffed by "whites", uranium ore has negligible health risks.

>Uranium mining has widespread effects, contaminating the environment with radioactive dust, radon gas, water-borne toxins, and increased levels of background radiation...Uranium is an α-particle emitter, as are many of its radioactive decay products, including radon. α-Particles are bulky (2 protons and 2 neutrons) and cannot penetrate human skin. However, when particulate matter containing α-emitters is inhaled or ingested, it results in internal exposure to radiation. The carcinogenicity of inhaled α-emitters is not in dispute. Radon gas is responsible for up to 20% of cases of lung cancer in Canada.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3653646/

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#26
post #3

Cool. Also what, Ehtséo Ayah didn't see a great mushroom in the distance? That's pretty disappointing

[flagged]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-history-okinawa-idU...

I believe a parallel debate among historians is whether mass Japanese civilian suicides near battle zones were under Japanese military orders or were merely voluntary. You can be sure the Allied invasion of the home islands would have been desirable for such coerced self killing -- which the Allies tried to prevent -- if it had been the mission to kill as many Japanese people as possible.

What is AFAIK not debated is that Japanese who did surrender, instead of heading for the suicide cliffs in places like Okinawa (I don't know about Saipan), were often murdered from a distance by the Japanese soldiers who wanted everyone to head for the suicide cliffs. It possibly deterred other Japanese who were thinking of surrender. Unfortunately I think that your justified indignation actually overestimates human righteousness and justification, both theirs and ours and our own future descendants'. I think justification is needed and justice/hope is too but it won't come from the likes of us.

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#27
post #4

Based on my notes from reading The New World: Volume 1, 1939-1946 by Hewlett and Anderson, approximately 1/6th of the Uranium used for the Manhattan Project came from Canada, 1/7th from the US, and the rest came from the Belgian Congo (most of that was actually shipped across the Atlantic before the US entered the war- it was stored on Staten Island for safekeeping before US entry and the creation of the Manhattan Pr…

Shinkolobwe Mine in the Belgian Congo [0].

> This secrecy was maintained long after the end of the war. “Efforts were made to give the message that the uranium came from Canada, as a way of deflecting attention away from the Congo..."

> Under Belgian rule, Congolese workers toiled day and night in the open pit, sending hundreds of tonnes of uranium ore to the US every month.

[0]: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200803-the-forgotten-mi...

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#28
post #3

Cool. Also what, Ehtséo Ayah didn't see a great mushroom in the distance? That's pretty disappointing

[flagged]

I have no defence for the Canadian government's treatment of Indigenous people - either in this case or in a thousand others - but describing the Manhattan Project as "an American mission to kill as many people as they could in Japan" is really, really facile.

For most of the war, the primary concern of the Manhattan Project was to counter Nazi Germany's attempt to build something similar, which had started beforehand. I don't know whether the US handled the bomb responsibly, but I know that the Nazis definitely wouldn't have. Given that history, as a Jew I find it almost offensive to deny the virtue of a mission to keep Hitler from having nuclear weapons unchecked.

Even once Germany surrendered, the goal of the bombing was to force an end to the war quickly instead of executing a protracted land invasion of the Japanese Home Islands - which probably would have killed more people (Japanese and American) than the bomb did. There were various ways the US probably could have caused fewer civilian casualties; but they also made several decisions that massively limited the amount of death - for instance, instead of picking relatively small military targets and staggering their delivery, they could've just dropped their three available bombs in one go on Tokyo, Osaka, and Nagoya and called it a day.

Re: Mine in the Northwest Territories provided uranium to Manhattan Project (2011)

#29
Lived in the nwt for many years as a kid. Highlights? A lot:

- good schools. I miss Ms. Carter

- travel extensively through Yukon

- great shape: shoveled a lot of snow and frozen Canadian ice cream. Lots of cross country skiing

- maple walnut icecream is awesome. Hard to find in the usa

- had a decent fossil collection for a while

- got into a lot of trouble (having fun). Still know k-6 principal name (Ms. Wind and her paddle. She might remember me too).

- awesome/epic snowball fights. I should have pitched for the Yankees

- appreciation for beauty of land nature

- caught my first fish in the keele River. Smoked it

- cold nights makes well read kids

- a piece of sputnik fell to earth not too far from us

- as ref almost all Canadians live very close to us border. The nwt capital (yellowknife) is on great slave lake about 40 degree north. You live there because you are a native, geologist, government worker. Named after local tribe

- great bear lake is one lake up from great slave

- Unofficial national dessert? Strawberry short cake or rhubarb pie.

Post reply on HN