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Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

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Re: Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

#21

Post by cvoss »

Scaevolus wrote: post #10

Try the demo! Bombe embeds a copy of the Z3 SMT theorem prover to validate that the rules you create are sound, enabling it to show counterexamples for logical inconsistencies. People mention the UI being bad-- I think it's more that the fundamental gameplay loop is confusing, and it's sometimes hard to understand the logic behind the rules you need to make.

> Z3 SMT theorem prover to validate

Well that's awesome. Do you know, is the theory decidable? My guess would be yes, due to quantification over only bounded integers, but I'm not sure what the full complexity of the rule language is.

Re: Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

#22

Post by rplnt »

TylerE wrote: post #19
eloisant wrote: post #3

It's a cool idea but the UI is just too confusing

Pretty much my reaction. Total pixel vomit like it's 1993.

Confusing and visually unpleasing (assuming that's what you meant by "pixel vomit") are two very distinct things. And it looka nothing like anything from 1993 or something you would describe using the word "pixel".

Re: Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

#23

Post by TylerE »

rplnt wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much my reaction. Total pixel vomit like it's 1993.

Confusing and visually unpleasing (assuming that's what you meant by "pixel vomit") are two very distinct things. And it looka nothing like anything from 1993 or something you would describe using the word "pixel".

It is possible to be unpleasant and non-confusing.

It is possible to be pleasant but confusing.

This is BOTH.

I think "pixel vomit" is perfectly descriptive of this jumble of confusing font sizes, similar-but-not-identical colors, no padding...anywhere.

Re: Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

#24

Post by cafemachiavelli »

The UI feels unpolished (why can't I select multiple patterns in one movement? Why is the bomb/free selection so small?) but the game loop itself is quite satisfying. I remember playing Minesweeper as a child, explaining the deductions I made to imaginary friends, and having to think through why a certain rule works the way it does scratches the same itch.

Re: Bombe: Minesweeper, but you only solve each situation once

#25

Post by Scaevolus »

cvoss wrote: post #21
Scaevolus wrote: post #10

Try the demo! Bombe embeds a copy of the Z3 SMT theorem prover to validate that the rules you create are sound, enabling it to show counterexamples for logical inconsistencies. People mention the UI being bad-- I think it's more that the fundamental gameplay loop is confusing, and it's sometimes hard to understand the logic behind the rules you need to make.

> Z3 SMT theorem prover to validate Well that's awesome. Do you know, is the theory decidable? My guess would be yes, due to quantification over only bounded integers, but I'm not sure what the full complexity of the rule language is.

The rules you create are in the form of venn diagrams of up to 4 overlapping regions (see shagie's top-level comment), where you can specify rules for each region to match and the sizes of the different overlaps, and then the output is a decision-- marking specific regions as clear/bomb, creating new regions (!), or even changing region visibility-- marking them as hidden or removing them from further rule evaluations.

Those rules can include terms like "5", "x", "x+2", and "x+y+3", so you can express most variants in a signle rule.

The closest to "undecidable" under this rule system is that you can hide a region and prevent further deductions from it, making some board states impossible to resolve. Other than that, all the rules are decidable.

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