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Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

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21–30 of 386 posts

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#21
post #5

Every tech company I’ve worked at has been run by Ivy people but all the actual code is written by Cal State graduates and high school dropouts.

Does that include CTOs? I've been around quite a few companies, and this ivy/oxbridge thingie mostly involves working in areas with a strong prestige element to them.

I.e. there get-shit-done areas, and there are showing-off areas, with very different ruling classes in them, different problems too.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#22

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

There's nothing wrong with having "elites," so long as there is strong social mobility in society in both directions (progressive taxation, no bailouts for the rich, aggressive inheritance tax, lots of social services). In that case, the initial playing field would be a lot more balanced and people who are elites would have had to actually earn it themselves, rather than being recipients of an eternal legacy.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#23
> But we agree on the ideal, right? In dreamworld, every kid would follow their own path. There would be no “advanced classes” or “tracks” because those concepts wouldn’t exist.

If I grew up in this ideal, I'd be a bum. I was a lazy and arrogant teenager; my ideal path was to go "oh, sh*t, I need to work hard or I won't get into a good school"

I'm not saying our system is perfect (or even good). But it's easy to critique a system when you acknowledge exactly 0 of its benefits.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#24

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Isn't pre-agricultural society supposed to have been fairly egalitarian in comparison?

In comparison, yes.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#25

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Wow, that's a strong claim. There are various counterexamples to this, so I'd say it's definitely not a law of nature. And anyway, nature by nature (lol) is essentially lawless. It's all random collisions of tiny molecules.

So, if anything, I'd say the one law of nature is that there are no laws of nature. Thus, no, there isn't always a ruling class. It doesn't have to be that way.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#26
post #2

This article misses the simple fact that the type of fellow students you have will impact how well you do as a student. Humans are social creatures and will influence each other's behavior. That's not even getting into negative pressure from things like bullying. edit: Also their point on the curriculum being similar misses the fact that the standard for doing well differs. Barely learning some material is different…

Doesn't that enhance the effect of the gate rather than detract from it? If, ceteris paribus, being around the shiniest of gold stars helps you shimmer a little brighter, that seems likely to make the gating-function effect more pronounced, not less. My criticism of the article is that there's no alternative solution given. You want to abolish all admissions? That's cool. What do we replace it with? A lottery seems l…

One of the points of the article seemed to be to do gating latter rather than earlier. I'm saying that this is detrimental as being around the dullest stars will make you a dull star more often than not.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#27
post #5

Every tech company I’ve worked at has been run by Ivy people but all the actual code is written by Cal State graduates and high school dropouts.

Yes. I see people promoted to elevated managerial positions not on merit but were they went to school. We deal with this by "managing up", it's exhausting.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#28

There is always a ruling class. It's an emergent phenomenon which always reasserts itself after any upset. Basically a law of nature.

Isn't pre-agricultural society supposed to have been fairly egalitarian in comparison?

There were plenty of agricultural societies that were also fairly egalitarian. One interesting bias we tend have is that we identify "advanced" societies by how much they look like our own. This leads to a general bias towards deeply hierarchial, stratified societies being described/perceived favorably in media against their less familiar neighbors.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#29
post #13
post #2

This article misses the simple fact that the type of fellow students you have will impact how well you do as a student. Humans are social creatures and will influence each other's behavior. That's not even getting into negative pressure from things like bullying. edit: Also their point on the curriculum being similar misses the fact that the standard for doing well differs. Barely learning some material is different…

Isn't this what is suggested below the second picture? > Really, it’s harder than this picture suggests, because many experiences are based on other students. If I want you as my project partner but you want to forget I exist, then something has to give.

I'm saying that the effect is much much more impactful than they make it seem with their one line throwaway comment in a long article.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#30
Gating as late as possible was precisely the philosophy of the OMSCS program of Georgia Tech. They reduced the bar for admission and admitted as many as they could (given they didn't need to fit everyone in physical classrooms) but kept the same academic rigor.

I benefited greatly getting this program, but would have never bothered to apply by taking GRE first (in my 30s, if I may add) otherwise.

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