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Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

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Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#21

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

rpdillon wrote: post #18
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #5

I don't believe it is possible under US law to "relinquish all copyrights". Merely asserting something is in the public domain does not make it so. For instance, I could write a book today and do so... and people are probably safe to do what they want with it. Then tomorrow, when I croak, my family still retains copyright for the next 95 years. They might decide that this is their golden ticket, and everyone who cont…

Sqlite is a good counterexample. https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html

US law makes no provision for someone asserting that something is "in the public domain".

Saying "but these people asserted it" isn't much of a counter-argument. Are they lawyers? Legal scholars?

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#22

Post by rpdillon »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #21
rpdillon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sqlite is a good counterexample. https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html

US law makes no provision for someone asserting that something is "in the public domain". Saying "but these people asserted it" isn't much of a counter-argument. Are they lawyers? Legal scholars?

The Sqlite team has absolutely retained lawyers to advise on how to achieve this.

Stanford has a clear page on fair use and the public domain, and specifically cited 'dedication' as one of the four most common ways for a work to arrive in public domain.

https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/

I'm just a random internet guy, but I've studied copyright for 25 years since it's a hobby of mine, and I'm not aware of any basis for your statements in this thread to the effect that works in the U.S. can't be put in the public domain. I'm aware of a lot of counterexamples, however, and I thought it was worth citing one here.

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#23

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

rpdillon wrote: post #22
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US law makes no provision for someone asserting that something is "in the public domain". Saying "but these people asserted it" isn't much of a counter-argument. Are they lawyers? Legal scholars?

The Sqlite team has absolutely retained lawyers to advise on how to achieve this. Stanford has a clear page on fair use and the public domain, and specifically cited 'dedication' as one of the four most common ways for a work to arrive in public domain. https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/ I'm just a random internet guy, but I've studied copyright for 25 years since it's a hobby of mine, and I…

Their page lists the 4 ways for a work to go into the public domain:

1. The copyright expires.

2. The copyright expires because it wasn't renewed.

3. They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire.

4. Was never eligible for copyright.

So, SQLite's almost got it done... they just have to wait the better part of a century, and their quest to put it into the public domain will have succeeded.

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#24

Post by BizarroLand »

weregiraffe wrote: post #19
tgv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was learning Spanish, I read LOTR in translation. That was some of the worst prose I've ever read. Tolkien wasn't a great writer, but that really took the life out of the books. Look at Bible translations: there's a new one for every generation, even though it looses the (IMO) very important aspect of tradition. Translations age, some quite badly. Chances are, your Nietschze translation was written for an audi…

>Tolkien wasn't a great writer These are fighting words, pal.

I've read tens of thousands of books, and probably that length more in short stories and prose. I can't make it past page 150 of the two towers.

As a rational human being, I feel like 45 pages of "they walked past a tree. They walked past another tree. They ate food. They walked past a tree. This tree was interesting because it was 3.4 centimeters taller than the last 46 trees they passed by. Let's sit and eat lunch and talk about this tree. The tree is a tree. Yep. Just like that tree over there. And if you look past that tree, a little to the left, down the rolling glade and just over the tree topped hill, you will see another tree, and next to that tree is a tree that one time a treant leaned against in the middle of his 45 hour long conversation with the tree that I mentioned to look past to see the tree that the treeant leaned against, and the contents of that 45 hour conversation was basically the treeant saying his full name to the tree, not hearing a response, and then saying it again, only this time, he didn't hear a response, but then he realized that he was just talking to a tree and not a treeant, which made him sad, so he told the first second tree, the tree he was leaning on, that we are talking about now, that the fact that the second first tree was not a treant made him sad, before he realized, oh, silly goose, I've done it again! I'm talking to trees like a looney. I had better stop talking to trees before the other treants lock me away."

His themes are great, but Tolkien is not exactly a riveting writer. It's so bad that the only way I was able to make it through the the movie of the two towers was by making out with my girlfriend for the boring parts, which, let's face it, was the middle 2 hours.

The two towers gave me narcolepsy and genital friction burn.

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#25

Post by rpdillon »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #23
rpdillon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sqlite team has absolutely retained lawyers to advise on how to achieve this. Stanford has a clear page on fair use and the public domain, and specifically cited 'dedication' as one of the four most common ways for a work to arrive in public domain. https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome/ I'm just a random internet guy, but I've studied copyright for 25 years since it's a hobby of mine, and I…

Their page lists the 4 ways for a work to go into the public domain: 1. The copyright expires. 2. The copyright expires because it wasn't renewed. 3. They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire. 4. Was never eligible for copyright. So, SQLite's almost got it done... they just have to wait the better part of a century, and their quest to put it into the public domain will have succ…

> They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire.

That's not what it says. You've fabricated the part about letting the copyright expire.

From that page:

> If, upon viewing a work, you see words such as, “This work is dedicated to the public domain,” then it is free for you to use. Sometimes an author deliberately chooses not to protect a work and dedicates the work to the public.

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#26

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

rpdillon wrote: post #25
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their page lists the 4 ways for a work to go into the public domain: 1. The copyright expires. 2. The copyright expires because it wasn't renewed. 3. They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire. 4. Was never eligible for copyright. So, SQLite's almost got it done... they just have to wait the better part of a century, and their quest to put it into the public domain will have succ…

> They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire. That's not what it says. You've fabricated the part about letting the copyright expire. From that page: > If, upon viewing a work, you see words such as, “This work is dedicated to the public domain,” then it is free for you to use. Sometimes an author deliberately chooses not to protect a work and dedicates the work to the public.

It may be free to use... that's not the same as "in the public domain".

And I did not fabricate it. It was directly from your link, without so much as scrolling. They have a 4 point list of ways for things to be in the public domain (and it's bad... like "wasn't renewed" is identical to "letting copyright expire", just because the law previously allowed renewal doesn't make that a special category).

> Sometimes an author deliberately chooses not to protect a work

Which isn't public domain. It's something else entirely.

When a work is in the public domain, the author can't choose to protect it. Only the government can do this, and they made no provision for authors to choose to put works in the public domain.

If the author can change his mind (or his descendants), then it is not and never was in the public domain. It is an important distinction, one which failure to understand it has the potential to cause grief.

Re: Laniakea Books: Public domain books for everyone

#27

Post by rpdillon »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #26
rpdillon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They dedicate it to the public domain, and then wait for the copyright to expire. That's not what it says. You've fabricated the part about letting the copyright expire. From that page: > If, upon viewing a work, you see words such as, “This work is dedicated to the public domain,” then it is free for you to use. Sometimes an author deliberately chooses not to protect a work and dedicates the work to the public.

It may be free to use... that's not the same as "in the public domain". And I did not fabricate it. It was directly from your link, without so much as scrolling. They have a 4 point list of ways for things to be in the public domain (and it's bad... like "wasn't renewed" is identical to "letting copyright expire", just because the law previously allowed renewal doesn't make that a special category). > Sometimes an au…

An author dedicating the work to the public domain, which is the same as giving up their copyright rights, absolutely puts the work into the public domain, regardless of whether the copyright term has expired.

This time from Cornell Law:

> Once that period of time expires, or if the creator failed to comply with any legal formalities required at the time of creation or thereafter, the work enters the public domain - meaning it belongs to everyone, without restriction. The creator may also decide before the expiration of copyright to dedicate the work to the public domain, giving that new creation to the public to use.

https://guides.library.cornell.edu/copyright/publicdomain

The author cannot 'change their mind' in this case: the rights, once given up, cannot be reinstated.

There is a sharp edge here with collections of public domain works being copyrightable, but that's a separate issue, and does not affect the public domain status of the contituent works.

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